Europe's Populist Left

[Valmy]

Weirdly the Greek government and banks apparently have a lot of investments in Bulgaria. The economies are a lot closer than you would've guessed.

Wouldn't they logically be very close being neighbors and all?  I mean even if they weren't both in the EU (and why they are both in the EU is a puzzler to me).

[Sheilbh]

Brits have a historic soft spot for Greece I guess. Sheilbh is pretty much obligated to take their side.

No we don't

Though, historically, we probably bear more than our fair share of fucking Greece up in the 20th century, but what can you do.

Cyprus and Malta, yes. They're wonderful.

I'm taking their side because I think it's the sensible, pragmatic one to take.

[Admiral Yi]

The issue as I see it is not whether you are for or against Greece, but rather whether you acknowledge or ignore the contradictions in Syrizana's statements.

[Martinus]

Absolutely. According to the World Bank and Transparency International Greece has a lower level of quality institutions than Bulgaria

Maybe Bulgaria has really good institutions 

Weirdly the Greek government and banks apparently have a lot of investments in Bulgaria. The economies are a lot closer than you would've guessed.

Why would that be weird? I would have thought capital going between two neighboring EU countries, where one of them is (still) significantly richer than the other to be pretty much de rigeur. It's like being surprised by German investments in Poland or Scandinavian investments in Estonia.

[Martinus]

Weirdly the Greek government and banks apparently have a lot of investments in Bulgaria. The economies are a lot closer than you would've guessed.

Wouldn't they logically be very close being neighbors and all?  I mean even if they weren't both in the EU (and why they are both in the EU is a puzzler to me).

Because we needed someone to be worse than Italy and Poland, respectively.

[Martinus]

Plus Greece and Bulgaria have a lot in common culturally, both building their cultural identity around pretending they are not Turks.

[Sheilbh]

Emphasised by a shared love of Mother Russia.

[Martinus]

Emphasised by a shared love of Mother Russia.

Well, that doesn't come from nowhere. For the last few centuries Russia pursued the policy of supporting Orthodox countries in Europe - so I suppose this now pays off.

[celedhring]

Weirdly the Greek government and banks apparently have a lot of investments in Bulgaria. The economies are a lot closer than you would've guessed.

Wouldn't they logically be very close being neighbors and all?  I mean even if they weren't both in the EU (and why they are both in the EU is a puzzler to me).

Because we needed someone to be worse than Italy and Poland, respectively.

Old joke in Spain is that Greece is there to make us look good in European stats.

[The Minsky Moment]

The issue as I see it is not whether you are for or against Greece, but rather whether you acknowledge or ignore the contradictions in Syrizana's statements.

It may be objectionable but not contradictory.

What Syriza wants is a write down of the debt.  They don't really care how exactly is done or what terms are used to describe it.  But their position is - write down or do the economically equivalent and we will not need (or want) to take new money.

But Troika does not agree, at least not yet.  They are negotiating.  But while they negotiate time passes, and as time passes payments come due.  So as long as Syriza isn't getting its write down it has to roll over somehow and that means new money has to come in. 

[Admiral Yi]

So Shelf got it wrong about Syriza not looking for a write down.  That makes a lot more sense.

[Valmy]

Though, historically, we probably bear more than our fair share of fucking Greece up in the 20th century, but what can you do.

To be fair it was not like Greece exited the 19th century in great shape either.

[Eddie Teach]

It's really been downhill since the 4th century BC.

[Sheilbh]

So Shelf got it wrong about Syriza not looking for a write down.  That makes a lot more sense.

They don't want one in the plans they've released so far. I'd be amazed if anyone brought it up again because it's toxic for other Eurozone countries. Just like Schaeuble, with the grace of a hippo, isn't talking about the Troika.

More positive than negative signs as the meeting begins. But nothing will be agreed tonight.

Meanwhile large pro-government protests across Greece many banners referring to a poem from the war of independence 'beseiged but free'.

[Sheilbh]

Apparently the best case scenario for tonight is that all parties have a mutual understanding of the preparation for the next meeting - so it should be short no actualy money being divvied up tonight.

Meanwhile Lagarde () is looking wonderful in fashion solidarity with Greece:


Edit: In general I think the hardline looks a little more isolated now. The Commission and the French (and the Irish and Austrians) were prepared for some form of bridging finance  both said it 'needed' to happen. Moscovici has said Greece's place is in the Euro, governments need room for manoeuvre after elections and we should take account of results 'otherwise what is the point of voting in the European Union?' No deal today but Greeks will present their case and there needs to be a deal on Monday 'a huge amount of pragmatism and good will required on all sides'.

Lagarde had a good meeting with Varoufakis 'they are competent, intelligent people who have reflected on their affairs and we must listen' (worth remembering the Fund's Europe head has already said Greek debt should be cut in half and the US, UK and others who are broadly supportive of the Greeks also have shares).

Schaeuble's comments were a little off-key - if they want to leave the program 'that's it, it's over' and I think other partners told him that the troika is dead given his line 'the Greek program will continue to be run by the troika, which apparently we can't call the troika anymore'