NFL Postseason Megathread: Playoffs in the Post-Orton Era

[Valmy]

Fair point.

[grumbler]

I think Brady wanted the balls below the minimum standard, because I don't think you can tell the difference between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. As someone who has handled hundreds of footballs, I think the idea that Brady wanted his at 12.5 rather than say 11.5 is not credible to me.

Okay, but then you have to explain why the vast majority balls used in the actual game, when measured, were just barely below the 12.5 psi requirement, rather than below 11.5 psi due to the cold.  If you have evidence, I'll entertain it, but in the absence of evidnce the claim that footballs don't obey the Ideal Gas Law just isn't credible to me.

I think the investigation rather clearly shows that the Pats were engaged in a long standing and consistent effort to deflate footballs after the officials certified them.

Okay.  I disagree.  I think the investigation showed no such thing at all, let alone showing it "clearly."  If you include evidence that the "investigation' excluded but had available to it, like the fact that the refs tested four footballs after the game (the only ones they had access to) used by the Colts and found three of them under-inflated like the Patriots balls, I'd say the conclusion is that the "investigation" is a crock of shit.

I haven't seen an investigation that makes it clear that the Colts were consistently and intentionally deflating footballs via an understood process where a member of their organization would routinely take certified footballs and alter them.

You haven't seen such an investigation for the Patriots, either.  When the investigation can only conclude that it is "more probable than not" that something happened, and produces no evidence for even that feeble standard of proof, it's a crock of shit to an outside observer.  I suppose true believers are able to see the Emperor's New Clothes, though.

[grumbler]

No one has mentioned The Science Guy's vindication.

Has there been a vindication?

[Berkut]

You haven't seen such an investigation for the Patriots, either. 

Yes, I have. I don't believe for a minute that the explanation for a bunch of text messages where Pats employees routinely talk about their jobs deflating footballs is something other than some Pats employees considered it their job to deflate footballs after the refs examined them.

[grumbler]

Yes, I have. I don't believe for a minute that the explanation for a bunch of text messages where Pats employees routinely talk about their jobs deflating footballs is something other than some Pats employees considered it their job to deflate footballs after the refs examined them.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs.  I don't believe that the texts mentioned deflating footballs at all.  In fact, they mentioned inflating them: "im going make that next ball a fu-kin balloon." See http://time.com/3849688/deflategate-text-messages-patriots-tom-brady/

[derspiess]

Hey remember when Appy State beat Michigan?  That was the upset of the century.

[Valmy]

You're killing me here Spicey

[Berkut]

Yes, I have. I don't believe for a minute that the explanation for a bunch of text messages where Pats employees routinely talk about their jobs deflating footballs is something other than some Pats employees considered it their job to deflate footballs after the refs examined them.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs.  I don't believe that the texts mentioned deflating footballs at all.  In fact, they mentioned inflating them: "im going make that next ball a fu-kin balloon." See http://time.com/3849688/deflategate-text-messages-patriots-tom-brady/

Oh, ok then.

[derspiess]

[Berkut]

If you include evidence that the "investigation' excluded but had available to it, like the fact that the refs tested four footballs after the game (the only ones they had access to) used by the Colts and found three of them under-inflated like the Patriots balls, I'd say the conclusion is that the "investigation" is a crock of shit.

Where are you getting that from?

All eleven of
the Patriots game balls tested measured below the minimum pressure level of 12.5 pounds per
square inch ("psi") allowed by Rule 2 of the Official Playing Rules of the National Football
League (the "Playing Rules") on both of two air pressure gauges used to test the balls. The four
Colts balls tested each measured within the 12.5 to 13.5 psi range permitted under the Playing
Rules on at least one of the gauges used for the tests.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

[Berkut]

The report is pretty damning. They tested all 11 game balls from the Patriots at half time. Prior to the game, all were tested and were all at the requested PSI that Brady asked for - 12.5.

All the Colts balls pre-game were right around 13.0, a couple as low as 12.8.

During the pre-game inspection, Anderson determined that all but two of the
Patriots game balls delivered by McNally were properly inflated. Most of them
measured 12.5 psi. Two tested below 12.5 psi and Anderson directed another
game official to further inflate those two game balls, which Anderson then
adjusted to 12.5 psi using a pressure gauge. Most of the Colts game balls tested
by Anderson prior to the game measured 13.0 or 13.1 psi. Although one or two
footballs may have registered 12.8 or 12.9 psi, it was evident to Anderson that the
Colts‟ inflation target for the game balls was 13.0 psi. No air was added to or
4
released from the Colts game balls pre-game because they were all within the
permissible range.

At half time, all 11 Patriots balls tested were well below 12.5, all in the 10.5 to 11.5 range. They only had time to test 4 Colts balls before the second half started, and all 4 were in the 12-13 range, and none measured lower than 12.5 on both gauges, while every single Pats ball measured below 12 on both gauges with one exception.

That means that generally the Colts balls went from a high pre game of just under 13 to around 12.2 to 12.7. Every single Pats ball went from 12.5 to as low as 10.5. We don't know which balls were tested pre game and at half time, so it is impossible to say which went from a particular pre game value to a particular low values, but we do know that before the game every Pats ball was at 12.5, because that is what they asked for and the official tested (and even adjusted two that were off), and at half time some of them were as low as 2 PSI below that. That cannot be explained by the temperature, and it certainly cannot explain why the Colts balls dropped a small fraction of that amount.

[Berkut]

Ideal Gas Law:

Among the issues discussed with our expert consultants was the magnitude of the
reduction in air pressure of the Patriots footballs and the apparent greater drop in air pressure of
the Patriots balls as compared to the Colts balls when tested at halftime. All of the game balls
tested at halftime measured at lower pressure levels as compared to the pressure levels measured
prior to the game. Our consultants confirmed that a reduction in air pressure is a natural result of
footballs moving from a relatively warm environment such as a locker room to a colder
environment such as a playing field. According to our scientific consultants, however, the
reduction in pressure of the Patriots game balls cannot be explained completely by basic
scientific principles, such as the Ideal Gas Law, based on the circumstances and conditions likely
to have been present on the day of the AFC Championship Game. In addition, the average
pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by
10
0.45 to 1.02 psi, depending on various possible assumptions regarding the gauges used, and
assuming an initial pressure of 12.5 psi for the Patriots balls and 13.0 psi for the Colts balls.

Sorry, that isn't going to fly.

[Berkut]

I gotta think grumbler is just fucking with me here, right?

[Barrister]

I gotta think grumbler is just fucking with me here, right?

You have to ask?

[Berkut]

I gotta think grumbler is just fucking with me here, right?

You have to ask?

Well, I can be pretty dense at times, so who really knows?