UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[celedhring]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11278440/Nigel-Farage-blames-immigration-after-missing-Ukip-reception.html

I guess if you are creative enough you can blame immigration for everything!

Nigel Farage blames immigration after missing Ukip reception
Ukip leader says he was two hours late for a conference meeting because immigration caused traffic jams on M4 motorway

Nigel Farage has blamed high levels of immigration for missing a meeting with Ukip supporters.
Mr Farage said he was detained in a traffic jam on the M4 which meant he was unable to attend a £25-a-head reception for 100 party supporters to meet the leader at Ukip's first conference in Wales.
The drinks reception was held the night before the party's main conference in Port Talbot on Saturday.
Speaking to the BBC's Sunday Politics Wales, Mr Farage said: "It took me six hours and 15 minutes to get here - it should have taken three-and-a-half to four.
"That is nothing to do with professionalism, what it does have to do with is a population that is going through the roof chiefly because of open-door immigration and the fact that the M4 is not as navigable as it used to be."
Owen Smith, the Labour shadow Welsh secretary said: "Remarks like these are what makes Farage so dangerous.
"It is clearly absurd to suggest heavy traffic on the M4 is caused by immigration, but through the laughter at his silly comments you can hear UKIP's dog-whistle politics of division."
However, James Brokenshire, the immigration minister, last month said immigration is putting pressure on Britain's road network.
He dismissed a report that concluded that European migrants make a net economic gain to Britain by saying its "narrow focus" had failed to take into account pressure on infrastructure.
"It's not properly addressed the issue of the pressures on public services. Those things that I think very rightly concern the public on access to schools, hospitals, roads, housing, [show] why we do need a sustainable immigration system, bringing it down from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands," Mr Brokenshire said.

UK has one of the largest population densities among the big EU nations, that's were the pressure on infrastructure comes from*. I'd be surprised if immigration was such a contributor to it. Heck, IIRC Spain has a similar % of foreign born population, but a much smaller density and we probably have too much infrastructure right now  .


*And I suspect lack of investment too, but I won't claim to know enough of the UK to judge that.

[Agelastus]

UK has one of the largest population densities among the big EU nations, that's were the pressure on infrastructure comes from*. I'd be surprised if immigration was such a contributor to it. Heck, IIRC Spain has a similar % of foreign born population, but a much smaller density and we probably have too much infrastructure right now  .


*And I suspect lack of investment too, but I won't claim to know enough of the UK to judge that.

I like the way you bold Farage's bit but don't draw anyone's attention to the similar comment from a month previously by a government minister. Admittedly one who also doesn't seem to have read the actual report in question in full.

Anyway, although as an excuse it's lame and the issue actually shows bad planning on the part of Farage and his staff there is, as is often the case, a shred of truth to his words.

Economically active people are disproportionately likely to start driving/buy a car. Hence a seemingly small increase in the total population adds a disproportionate amount of traffic to the roads. After all, immigration's running at a rate of about a million every four years, a larger proportion of whom are of working age compared to the demographics of the general population. Certainly the number of vehicles on the roads has been increasing at a higher percentage than overall population growth would suggest.

However, this growth is certainly not all down to immigration; I'm fairly certain the growth trend in vehicles on the road exceeded the growth rate of the population quite a while before free movement came in in Europe.

Of course, you're right about the lack of investment. All Opposition parties complain the government of the day is not investing enough in roads then fail to spend enough when they're in power. Of course, it's not entirely they're fault. Government/civil service projections for the growth of road traffic have not been particularly accurate as far back as I can remember. They build a road that is supposed to be able to take the projected traffic growth for 20 years and then find they need to discuss widening it (or build a new road) within 5 years. And, of course, then find the money they weren't supposed to need for another decade or so.

[Eddie Teach]

If you listened to Josq, the growth in car buying would be attributed to old people and poors. 

[celedhring]

UK has one of the largest population densities among the big EU nations, that's were the pressure on infrastructure comes from*. I'd be surprised if immigration was such a contributor to it. Heck, IIRC Spain has a similar % of foreign born population, but a much smaller density and we probably have too much infrastructure right now  .


*And I suspect lack of investment too, but I won't claim to know enough of the UK to judge that.

I like the way you bold Farage's bit but don't draw anyone's attention to the similar comment from a month previously by a government minister. Admittedly one who also doesn't seem to have read the actual report in question in full.

Actually I was about to bold that one too, but somehow forgot after writing my opinions at the end of the article. It's more damning; I expect UKIP to spout this kind of thing, but not the government party directly responsible.

Yeah, there are many more factors besides downright population increase that drive road usage - that's why tying it to immigrants was just silly and a pretty kneejerk way to tie immigration to everything bad that happens in the UK.

[Tamas]

I have an EU-citizen colleague who drives. I ride the train. Which means that together we accomplish a full clog of the British transport system. 

[Sheilbh]

Maybe you should reread Tyr's original point then. Because he - unlike you - wasn't talking about about expats, but about doing it on their own. So your whole counterargument about how specialized departments in multinational companies can do it doesn't have any relevance to his original point. When you are on your own, finding a job in an EEA country is magnitudes easier than doing the same outside the EEA. Thanks to freedom of movement.

My argument was that most British people who live in Europe are pensioners or expats (by my definition) who, even without free movement, would probably be doing it anyway. It is magnitudes easier to find a job in another EEA country but that's a perishing small number of Brits. As I say most people who want to emigrate do to Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc (I know several English electricians who've moved to Oz ). There's a few English language teachers and the like but it's still fairly rare, not least because we're dreadful at other languages.

So part of reason, possibly, that free movement is less popular here (as I say I find 50% support of free movement for Brits very low) is because it's not something British people really take advantage of.

Would the UK debate consider garbon an immigrant or an American expat?

American market researcher in London. Expat.

I wonder if I (Americans) would even come up in the discussion as we don't have free movement to the UK and have to demonstrate things like that we won't become welfare queens. I would guess we make up an insignificant set of people coming over.

You don't come up. The UK if polled support immigration, but basically want a points-based Australian style immigration system which I think we largely have except for the EU where it's impossible. So Americans are fine though as Gups said you're only about 5% of the total.

I also think there's a slight Anglosphere bias. I don't think anyone moaning about immigration would ever mean Aussies, Kiwis or Yanks.

UK has one of the largest population densities among the big EU nations, that's were the pressure on infrastructure comes from*. I'd be surprised if immigration was such a contributor to it. Heck, IIRC Spain has a similar % of foreign born population, but a much smaller density and we probably have too much infrastructure right now  .

I think the highest population density of big EU countries, not far ahead of Germany. Within the EU England's population density is second only to Malta. Immigration's definitely part of it it accounted for 50% of the population growth between 2001-11 (which was a 7% increase compared with around a 2% increase 1991-2001).

But you're right that is simply daft. If I were him I would have blamed it on over-regulation by Brussels and daft green opposition increasing/improving roads.

[Josquius]

I'm sure id read number of cars on the roads had peaked in the 90s.
Shall have to check that one

[Agelastus]

I'm sure id read number of cars on the roads had peaked in the 90s.
Shall have to check that one

Take a look at this report from 2008.

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation/content/downloadables/car%20ownership%20in%20great%20britain%20-%20leibling%20-%20171008%20-%20report.pdf

As for total traffic and what's forecast for it...

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/tra99-forecasts-of-traffic

You can understand why the governments running schemes testing out driverless cars.

[Zanza]

My argument was that most British people who live in Europe are pensioners or expats (by my definition) who, even without free movement, would probably be doing it anyway.

Eh? Freedom of movement for non-economically active people was only added in the Treaty of Maastricht. So most British people that benefit from freedom of movement wouldn't benefit from the stricter version of the EEC they joined back in the 1970s.

UK has one of the largest population densities among the big EU nations, that's were the pressure on infrastructure comes from*. I'd be surprised if immigration was such a contributor to it. Heck, IIRC Spain has a similar % of foreign born population, but a much smaller density and we probably have too much infrastructure right now  .

I think the highest population density of big EU countries, not far ahead of Germany. Within the EU England's population density is second only to Malta.

The Netherlands have a similar population density and I assume they also get a lot of immigrants. Would be interesting to compare how they handle stress on infrastructure and government services from that.

[Martinus]

So, Labour seems to have scored short of a minority bingo with a blind transgendered woman MP. If only she was black and muslim.

[Sheilbh]

UKIP have a sex scandal involving a man called Roger Bird

[Richard Hakluyt]

Appropriate that he should be named like a Carry On character