Erdogan: Women are not equal to men

[Razgovory]

What is the status of the PKK in the EU by the way?

Well, for instance, German leftists support this organisation at Goethe University in Frankfurt.

I was thinking of legal status.

I don't think any legal status in the EU warrants 19 dead Kurdish protesters in Turkey or a carte blanche to a loony islamist comparable to Putin in green. There were some protests in the EU as well, and guess what, nobody died. Not all these protesters were PKK militants or supporters besides.

Beyond Turkey, a number of people were hurt when clashes broke out in the German city of Hamburg after hundreds of Kurdish demonstrators in Hamburg held a rally against IS militants.

Some 400 Kurdish protesters fought with a similar number of radical Muslims, police told German media. Demonstrators, some carrying knives and knuckle-dusters, were eventually separated by police firing water cannon.

Injuries were also reported after violence involving members of the Yazidi religious group, most of whom are Kurds, and ethnic Chechens in the town of Celle in Lower Saxony.

So you won't actually say the word will you?  The PKK is considered a terrorist organization in both the EU and US.  I do love how our balls of light get about the Turkish question.

[Valmy]

When discussing theocracies, lets not forget the UK. It has a state church and the head of state is also the head of that church. The national anthem is even about the god saving their head of state/church.

Yeah theoretically the UK is theocratic absolute monarchy.

What theory is this?  Got a cite?

Oh hells no.  If I try to cite something before I know it, it will be five pages later and we will be posting long rebuttals broken into paragraphs.

[Martinus]

I don't know how he's polling now though I think he's been the most popular Turkish head of state with the Kurds in the history the Turkish republic.  They certainly aren't dying in the street there.

Indeed, because of his religious positions.  At least initially.  A lot of people were cautiously optimistic about him at first.

These people were fools.

[Duque de Bragança]

What is the status of the PKK in the EU by the way?

Well, for instance, German leftists support this organisation at Goethe University in Frankfurt.

I was thinking of legal status.

I don't think any legal status in the EU warrants 19 dead Kurdish protesters in Turkey or a carte blanche to a loony islamist comparable to Putin in green. There were some protests in the EU as well, and guess what, nobody died. Not all these protesters were PKK militants or supporters besides.

Beyond Turkey, a number of people were hurt when clashes broke out in the German city of Hamburg after hundreds of Kurdish demonstrators in Hamburg held a rally against IS militants.

Some 400 Kurdish protesters fought with a similar number of radical Muslims, police told German media. Demonstrators, some carrying knives and knuckle-dusters, were eventually separated by police firing water cannon.

Injuries were also reported after violence involving members of the Yazidi religious group, most of whom are Kurds, and ethnic Chechens in the town of Celle in Lower Saxony.

So you won't actually say the word will you?  The PKK is considered a terrorist organization in both the EU and US.  I do love how our balls of light get about the Turkish question.

Because that's not related to the question at hand, and you're using the PKK status to give a white card to your beloved islamicist friend Erdogan. Do I need to remember you how Erdogan has been supporting terrorism (what's the status of Daesh in the EU and US again?) in Syria for instance letting all jihadi wannabees go through Turkey? That even Erdogan agreed to a ceasefire with the PKK? The ceasefire ended when YPG and PKK started fighting Daesh in Syria incidentally.
News that didn't reach your basement it seems...

As for the status of the PKK as a terrorist organisation in the EU and more importantly the real consequences, some search on your part (hint Greece) would probably shock you. Turkish government complained many times this status was a façade. Greece and Cyprus, EU members armed them and supported them.

More about unofficial support to the PKK, not the YPG, and that was when the somewhat secular army still holding the power in Turkey. Now with Erdogan...

Support of various European states
Despite Brussels' designation of the group as a terrorist organization, the EU continues to permit the broadcasting of the organization's networks on the Hot Bird 3 satellite owned by the French company Eutelsat. MEDYA TV started transmissions from studios in Belgium via a satellite uplink from France. MEDYA TV's license was revoked by the French authorities. A few weeks later Roj TV began transmissions from Denmark. It has also been argued that the Netherlands and Belgium have supported the PKK by allowing its training camps to function in their respective territories. On 22 November 1998, Hanover's criminal police reported that three children had been trained by the PKK for guerrilla warfare in camps in the Netherlands and Belgium.[111] After the death of Theo van Gogh, with increasing attention on domestic security concerns, the Dutch police raided the 'PKK paramilitary camp' in the Dutch village of Liempde and arrested 29 people in November 2004, but all were soon released.[112] Denmark allows Kurdish satellite television stations (such as ROJ-TV), which Turkey claims has links with the PKK, to operate in Denmark and broadcast into Turkey.[113]
Various PKK leaders, including Hidir Yalcin, Riza Altun, Zubeyir Aydar, and Ali Haydar Kaytan all lived in Europe and moved freely. The free movement was achieved by strong ties with influential persons. Danielle Mitterrand, the wife of the former President of France, had active connections during the 90s with elements of the organization's leadership that forced a downgrade in relationships between the two states.[114] After harboring him for some time, Austria arranged a flight to Iraq for Ali Rıza Altun, a suspected key figure with an Interpol arrest warrant on his name.. Turkish foreign minister Abdullah Gül summoned the Austrian ambassador and condemned Austria's action.[115] On 30 September 1995, while Öcalan was in Syria, Damascus initiated contact with high-ranking German CDU MP Heinrich Lummer and German intelligence officials.

The Chief of the Turkish General Staff during 2007, General Yaşar Büyükanıt, stated that even though the international struggle had been discussed on every platform and even though organizations such as the UN, NATO, and EU made statements of serious commitment, to this day the necessary measures had not been taken.[116] According to Büyükanıt; "this conduct on one side has encouraged the terrorists, on the other side it assisted in widening their activities.[116] " Sedat Laçiner, of the Turkish think tank ISRO, says that US support of the PKK undermines the US War on Terrorism.[117] Seymour Hersh claimed that the U.S. supported PEJAK, the Iranian branch of the PKK.[118] The head of the PKK's militant arm, Murat Karayılan, claimed that Iran attempted to recruit the PKK to attack coalition forces, adding that Kurdish guerrillas had launched a clandestine war in north-western Iran, ambushing Iranian troops.[119]

All Kurds are all PKK supporters now, at least those who oppose the local Islamist Putin and/or Daesh, according to our crazy resident basement troll. Btw, it's YPG (People's protection units in English) the armed wing of a Syrian Kurdish political party) doing the major part of the fight against Daesh in Kobane, not the PKK, which is supporting along with the FSA (terrorists?) and Peshmergas (other terrorists according to you?), but guess what, your beloved islamo fundie Erdogan is doing a fine Stalin '44 Polish uprising impression.

[Duque de Bragança]

A similar number of pro-IS protestors?  Damn.

Salafist influence in Germany has been all over the news in Germany recently. One leads to the other, I'm afraid.

[Martinus]

I thought Kurd Kobane killed himself?

[Eddie Teach]

I thought Kurd Kobane killed himself?

[Razgovory]

Because that's not related to the question at hand, and you're using the PKK status to give a white card to your beloved islamicist friend Erdogan. Do I need to remember you how Erdogan has been supporting terrorism (what's the status of Daesh in the EU and US again?) in Syria for instance letting all jihadi wannabees go through Turkey? That even Erdogan agreed to a ceasefire with the PKK? The ceasefire ended when YPG and PKK started fighting Daesh in Syria incidentally.
News that didn't reach your basement it seems...

As for the status of the PKK as a terrorist organisation in the EU and more importantly the real consequences, some search on your part (hint Greece) would probably shock you. Turkish government complained many times this status was a façade. Greece and Cyprus, EU members armed them and supported them.

More about unofficial support to the PKK, not the YPG, and that was when the somewhat secular army still holding the power in Turkey. Now with Erdogan...

Support of various European states
Despite Brussels' designation of the group as a terrorist organization, the EU continues to permit the broadcasting of the organization's networks on the Hot Bird 3 satellite owned by the French company Eutelsat. MEDYA TV started transmissions from studios in Belgium via a satellite uplink from France. MEDYA TV's license was revoked by the French authorities. A few weeks later Roj TV began transmissions from Denmark. It has also been argued that the Netherlands and Belgium have supported the PKK by allowing its training camps to function in their respective territories. On 22 November 1998, Hanover's criminal police reported that three children had been trained by the PKK for guerrilla warfare in camps in the Netherlands and Belgium.[111] After the death of Theo van Gogh, with increasing attention on domestic security concerns, the Dutch police raided the 'PKK paramilitary camp' in the Dutch village of Liempde and arrested 29 people in November 2004, but all were soon released.[112] Denmark allows Kurdish satellite television stations (such as ROJ-TV), which Turkey claims has links with the PKK, to operate in Denmark and broadcast into Turkey.[113]
Various PKK leaders, including Hidir Yalcin, Riza Altun, Zubeyir Aydar, and Ali Haydar Kaytan all lived in Europe and moved freely. The free movement was achieved by strong ties with influential persons. Danielle Mitterrand, the wife of the former President of France, had active connections during the 90s with elements of the organization's leadership that forced a downgrade in relationships between the two states.[114] After harboring him for some time, Austria arranged a flight to Iraq for Ali Rıza Altun, a suspected key figure with an Interpol arrest warrant on his name.. Turkish foreign minister Abdullah Gül summoned the Austrian ambassador and condemned Austria's action.[115] On 30 September 1995, while Öcalan was in Syria, Damascus initiated contact with high-ranking German CDU MP Heinrich Lummer and German intelligence officials.

The Chief of the Turkish General Staff during 2007, General Yaşar Büyükanıt, stated that even though the international struggle had been discussed on every platform and even though organizations such as the UN, NATO, and EU made statements of serious commitment, to this day the necessary measures had not been taken.[116] According to Büyükanıt; "this conduct on one side has encouraged the terrorists, on the other side it assisted in widening their activities.[116] " Sedat Laçiner, of the Turkish think tank ISRO, says that US support of the PKK undermines the US War on Terrorism.[117] Seymour Hersh claimed that the U.S. supported PEJAK, the Iranian branch of the PKK.[118] The head of the PKK's militant arm, Murat Karayılan, claimed that Iran attempted to recruit the PKK to attack coalition forces, adding that Kurdish guerrillas had launched a clandestine war in north-western Iran, ambushing Iranian troops.[119]

All Kurds are all PKK supporters now, at least those who oppose the local Islamist Putin and/or Daesh, according to our crazy resident basement troll. Btw, it's YPG (People's protection units in English) the armed wing of a Syrian Kurdish political party) doing the major part of the fight against Daesh in Kobane, not the PKK, which is supporting along with the FSA (terrorists?) and Peshmergas (other terrorists according to you?), but guess what, your beloved islamo fundie Erdogan is doing a fine Stalin '44 Polish uprising impression.

Seems I hit a sore spot.  It is of course relevant since members of such groups would likely be arrested or at least detained in the US and Europe or at least should be.  You use the word Islamist quite a bit.  Does Erdogan describe himself as one?  As far as I know he does not.  He is a religious conservative.  You guys in Europe obsess over him.  You remind me of how are conservatives would rant on and on about Venezuela.  How Hugo Chavez was our number one threat.  I'm guessing the word "Muslim" just lights up that hate center in the European brain just like how the word "socialist" drives conservatives in this country nuts.

I had never heard the word "Daesh" before.  I had to look it up, seems to be another example of France wanting to control language.  In the US we call them ISIS.

[Sheilbh]

I had never heard the word "Daesh" before.  I had to look it up, seems to be another example of France wanting to control language.  In the US we call them ISIS.

Erdogan does describe himself as an Islamist.

Daesh is the Arabic acronym and a commonly used name for ISIS in the Middle East, not least because in Arabic it means something like 'cutthroats' so it's a derogatory term that ISIS hate - which is why the French use it. I thought the US had mostly moved on to ISIL now, or IS?

[Razgovory]

I had never heard the word "Daesh" before.  I had to look it up, seems to be another example of France wanting to control language.  In the US we call them ISIS.

Erdogan does describe himself as an Islamist.

Daesh is the Arabic acronym and a commonly used name for ISIS in the Middle East, not least because in Arabic it means something like 'cutthroats' so it's a derogatory term that ISIS hate - which is why the French use it. I thought the US had mostly moved on to ISIL now, or IS?

It was my understanding that he rejected this label.

[Valmy]

Seems I hit a sore spot.

Well yeah if you were similarly wanking off to Vladimir Putin people would also be sore about it.  But yes it is because we hate Muslims that we do not like Erdogan

[Valmy]

Anyway the most positive Islamist-democracy experiment is Tunisia, by a mile.

Yes I was thinking of them specifically.  There are so many Muslim states I figured there were a couple others I was missing as well.

[Sheilbh]

Anyway the most positive Islamist-democracy experiment is Tunisia, by a mile.

Yes I was thinking of them specifically.  There are so many Muslim states I figured there were a couple others I was missing as well.

We can at least lay the Bernard Lewis 'one man, one vote, once' thing to rest. So far every time Islamists have been elected there have been relatively free and fair elections at the end of their term. The normal threat, shockingly, seems to come from military coups.

[Jacob]

I had never heard the word "Daesh" before.  I had to look it up, seems to be another example of France wanting to control language.  In the US we call them ISIS.

Apparently Daesh/ISIS finds Daesh to be a derogatory term, thus the French adopted it. I would have expected you to approve of that.

[Malthus]

Anyway the most positive Islamist-democracy experiment is Tunisia, by a mile.

Yes I was thinking of them specifically.  There are so many Muslim states I figured there were a couple others I was missing as well.

We can at least lay the Bernard Lewis 'one man, one vote, once' thing to rest. So far every time Islamists have been elected there have been relatively free and fair elections at the end of their term. The normal threat, shockingly, seems to come from military coups.

I'm not so sure about that - how many actual 'Islamicist' elections have there been?

There was Egypt (ended in a coup), there is Turkey (with Erdogan seemingly setting himself up for Putin-hood-type dictatorship), and there was the Palestinian elections resulting in Hamas (no further elections appear likely), and there is Tunisia.