Sino-American Climate Deal?

[Admiral Yi]

My understanding is they are emitting significantly more per dollar of GDP.

[MadImmortalMan]

With the deal for Russian gas apparently going--my understanding is that converting coal plants to gas isn't too hard. They seem to be doing a multi-sided attack on smog.

[Siege]

Don't the plants and plankton consume the co2 during photosynthesis and create oxygen?

Yeah, we just don't have enough of them to offset.

Can I see the numbers on this?

[Eddie Teach]

Can I see the numbers on this?

No.

[Jacob]

Don't the plants and plankton consume the co2 during photosynthesis and create oxygen?

Yeah, we just don't have enough of them to offset.

Can I see the numbers on this?

321:13

[frunk]

Can I see the numbers on this?

Look at it this way.  We are producing way, way, way more CO2 than the environment normally has.  We also have destroyed large amounts of vegetation and screwed with the ocean's acidity/biomass in unpredictable ways.  It's possible that the plankton will be able to keep up with the new amounts of CO2 being produced, but they haven't so far and there's no sign that they will.

[The Minsky Moment]

My understanding is they are emitting significantly more per dollar of GDP.

I would imagine so because coal is such a big part of the energy mix and because in the country-side there is still of dirty burning of charcoal, etc for heat and cooking.  Which is why a big part of the Chinese development plan is pushing cleaner energy sources like hydro, nuclear and gas.

[Sheilbh]

We agree to cut ours, they agree to stop growing theirs 15 years from now.

US per capita emissions are 3 times as high so that is actually quite reasonable.

That was always Manmohan Singh's line whenever challenged on emissions by Western journalists - 'I vow our emissions will never exceed the United States' - per capita.'

And it's a fair point.

[Admiral Yi]

It's not clear to me why the large population countries should get a pass on producing such large populations.

[Jacob]

It's not clear to me why the large population countries should get a pass on producing such large populations.

What are you suggesting?

[Admiral Yi]

I am suggesting that equalizing per capita emissions is not quite as just as some people seem to believe.

[Jacob]

I am suggesting that equalizing per capita emissions is not quite as just as some people seem to believe.

Do you have a more just scheme in mind?

[Sheilbh]

It's not clear to me why the large population countries should get a pass on producing such large populations.

It's better than the alternatives which India and China have experimented with.

Also the best way to reduce the birth rate is to get rich.

[Ancient Demon]

It's not clear to me why the large population countries should get a pass on producing such large populations.

Saying brown people should have fewer children would be considered racist, so it's not something that can really be addressed in regards to environmental issues.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you have a more just scheme in mind?

Not right now. 

My point is the per capita argument is not a slam dunk.