Brazil Divorcing the American Controlled Internet

Started by Jacob, October 30, 2014, 12:51:55 PM

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Jacob

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2014, 08:14:30 PM
Conclusively.  I'd like to know with a high degree of certainty.

Well, I expect that spying on the emails and private conversations of top level government officials is one of them, but for conclusive word on what you supposedly did to trigger this response you'll probably have to ask the Brazilian government.

Razgovory

Spying on low level government officials is a poor use of assets.  Nobody cares what the guy who stamps boat licenses thinks.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

alfred russel

Quote from: Zoupa on October 30, 2014, 06:35:01 PM
Crazy thought here: how about not breaking a gazillions laws, buttfucking everyone s privacy and generally pissing off everybody including your closest allies?

You can shit on the Brazilians and mock all you want but why wouldnt there be a response to clear acts of aggression like the NSAs/US gov?

Because it is Brazil.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Jacob on October 30, 2014, 08:25:47 PM
Well, I expect that spying on the emails and private conversations of top level government officials is one of them, but for conclusive word on what you supposedly did to trigger this response you'll probably have to ask the Brazilian government.

I'm not just talking about Brazil.

Zoupa

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 30, 2014, 06:46:01 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 30, 2014, 06:35:01 PM
Crazy thought here: how about not breaking a gazillions laws, buttfucking everyone s privacy and generally pissing off everybody including your closest allies?

Excellent point but this thread is not about the DGSE.

So clever!

Thank you for this garbonesque contribution.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2014, 06:53:52 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 30, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2014, 06:49:41 PM
Americans exposed this you know.

Yeah, I'm aware. I have the impression that the Languish-Americans aggregate view of that exposure is pretty damn unfavourable though.

Much to my disgust.

:rolleyes:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2014, 07:12:16 PM
I'm still waiting for definitive word on what exactly it is we're doing.

Yi, there's been a lot of ink (both digital and real) spilled on this topic.  How is it you're unaware of this stuff?

Look - I'm generally supportive of what western security agencies are doing, but it's not out of ignorance of what they're doing, and I can understand why some countries (like Brazil) are rather upset about it. 

So really (and this isn't directed specifically at Yi) I think there's a lot more that can be discussed on the topic other than going "LULZ it's Brazil, they must just be stupid or corrupt".
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

frunk

Quote from: Jacob on October 30, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
Yeah, I'm aware. I have the impression that the Languish-Americans aggregate view of that exposure is pretty damn unfavourable though.

My opinion is that although there were some revelations made by the exposure, for the most part the domestic spying isn't surprising to anyone who paid attention to the Patriot Act (the fake outrage from the politicians over it is particularly stupid) and the foreign spying on allies has been going since WW II.  What is much more damaging is the fact that the leaker not only fled to the two most potentially dangerous countries, there's a decent possibility that the information leak has been driving the recent aggression of Russia.

If Snowden would have stayed in the US and revealed it here it would be a completely different story.  A whistle blower who takes secret information and flees to his country's enemies is also a traitor.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Barrister on October 30, 2014, 10:06:39 PM
Yi, there's been a lot of ink (both digital and real) spilled on this topic.  How is it you're unaware of this stuff?

Of course I'm aware of it.  It's that I'm having trouble sifting through the allegations.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Jacob on October 30, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2014, 06:49:41 PM
Americans exposed this you know.

Yeah, I'm aware. I have the impression that the Languish-Americans aggregate view of that exposure is pretty damn unfavourable though.

There's exposure and then there is how the exposure is done.
The latter is concerning to me and yet it doesn't seem to bother some, thus leading to this strange alliance between Western civil libertarians and a newly-minted pet of Putin's Russia.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 31, 2014, 09:04:53 AM
thus leading to this strange alliance between Western civil libertarians and a newly-minted pet of Putin's Russia.

There is no such alliance.  The ones in Russia are super paranoid about the Russians spying on them.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Zoupa on October 30, 2014, 08:55:57 PM
So clever!

Thank you for this garbonesque contribution.

Think of it as a public service announcement for the preservation of glass houses.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: frunk on October 31, 2014, 02:42:17 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 30, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
Yeah, I'm aware. I have the impression that the Languish-Americans aggregate view of that exposure is pretty damn unfavourable though.

My opinion is that although there were some revelations made by the exposure, for the most part the domestic spying isn't surprising to anyone who paid attention to the Patriot Act (the fake outrage from the politicians over it is particularly stupid) and the foreign spying on allies has been going since WW II.  What is much more damaging is the fact that the leaker not only fled to the two most potentially dangerous countries, there's a decent possibility that the information leak has been driving the recent aggression of Russia.

If Snowden would have stayed in the US and revealed it here it would be a completely different story.  A whistle blower who takes secret information and flees to his country's enemies is also a traitor.

I think the connection between Snowden and the Ukraine aggression is strectching it, but otherwise agree.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson