Vatican: ‘Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer Christians’ Bishops say

[Martinus]

I'm actually disappointed that most of the headlines have slanted it away from the biggest positive: I've been saying for years that government-sanctioned marriage was a mistake.  Of course, in hundreds of years, governments have been content to leave them tangled together- ironically, it's the church taking point on detangling "marriage" and a "partnership of mutual support."

Why is government-sanctioned marriage a mistake? Seems to me it performs lots of useful functions - ease of transfer of benefits, for example. What's the drawback?

This is such a bullshit "oh I will say something controversial to sound smart" trope that I don't even bother to answer.

[Malthus]

I'm actually disappointed that most of the headlines have slanted it away from the biggest positive: I've been saying for years that government-sanctioned marriage was a mistake.  Of course, in hundreds of years, governments have been content to leave them tangled together- ironically, it's the church taking point on detangling "marriage" and a "partnership of mutual support."

Why is government-sanctioned marriage a mistake? Seems to me it performs lots of useful functions - ease of transfer of benefits, for example. What's the drawback?

This is such a bullshit "oh I will say something controversial to sound smart" trope that I don't even bother to answer.

Me or him? 

[Malthus]

One of the comments I saw:

Translation: you are still inferior but we would really like your money, please.

True.

Though more charitably ... 'we are sorta stuck with this backwards doctrine, which lots of our folks are invested in, but we are being prodded by Francis to ditch it. Here's our tortured compromise ... '

[garbon]

I'm actually disappointed that most of the headlines have slanted it away from the biggest positive: I've been saying for years that government-sanctioned marriage was a mistake.  Of course, in hundreds of years, governments have been content to leave them tangled together- ironically, it's the church taking point on detangling "marriage" and a "partnership of mutual support."

Why is government-sanctioned marriage a mistake? Seems to me it performs lots of useful functions - ease of transfer of benefits, for example. What's the drawback?

This is such a bullshit "oh I will say something controversial to sound smart" trope that I don't even bother to answer.

Me or him? 

[Martinus]

I'm actually disappointed that most of the headlines have slanted it away from the biggest positive: I've been saying for years that government-sanctioned marriage was a mistake.  Of course, in hundreds of years, governments have been content to leave them tangled together- ironically, it's the church taking point on detangling "marriage" and a "partnership of mutual support."

Why is government-sanctioned marriage a mistake? Seems to me it performs lots of useful functions - ease of transfer of benefits, for example. What's the drawback?

This is such a bullshit "oh I will say something controversial to sound smart" trope that I don't even bother to answer.

Me or him? 

Sorry, him.

Only people who never had to care about the wellbeing of their loved ones think that "the government should stay out of marriage".

[Martinus]

One of the comments I saw:

Translation: you are still inferior but we would really like your money, please.

True.

Though more charitably ... 'we are sorta stuck with this backwards doctrine, which lots of our folks are invested in, but we are being prodded by Francis to ditch it. Here's our tortured compromise ... '

I know. I, for one, welcome it (more than most gays in Poland I talked to, including my partner, though). The fact that Polish fundies and bishops are already reacting hysterically and denouncing it is a bonus.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I'm actually disappointed that most of the headlines have slanted it away from the biggest positive: I've been saying for years that government-sanctioned marriage was a mistake.  Of course, in hundreds of years, governments have been content to leave them tangled together- ironically, it's the church taking point on detangling "marriage" and a "partnership of mutual support."

regulating marriage has been the prerogative of government ever since there was government

[Viking]

I'm actually disappointed that most of the headlines have slanted it away from the biggest positive: I've been saying for years that government-sanctioned marriage was a mistake.  Of course, in hundreds of years, governments have been content to leave them tangled together- ironically, it's the church taking point on detangling "marriage" and a "partnership of mutual support."

regulating marriage has been the prerogative of government ever since there was government

No.

The earliest case of meddling if family affairs I can think of is Augustus overcompensating for Julia being a slut.

[Martinus]

Roman law recognised consequences of marriage long before Augustus.

[DontSayBanana]

Why is government-sanctioned marriage a mistake? Seems to me it performs lots of useful functions - ease of transfer of benefits, for example. What's the drawback?

This is such a bullshit "oh I will say something controversial to sound smart" trope that I don't even bother to answer.

Fuck you, Mart.  And it's a mistake for the double-standard it set, which is what has the pope doing more verbal gymnastics than Mace Windu right now.

They wanted to extend benefits to families, which come with extra costs of raising a child and maintaining the home.  And then more people chose or became okay with childless relationships, so it became a government principle based on a tenet of a handful of religions.  All while saying that the government shouldn't be interfering in church affairs, and at least here in the US, there should even be a complete chinese wall between church and state.

Marriage represents a break in the chinese wall.  Simple as that.  So either the government had to redefine marriage as a secular concept (which has been happening at a glacial pace).  Or, as here, the church had to come out and say "yeah, we know it's confusing, but government marriage is not the same as church marriage."

There are still plenty of protestant conservatives who're going to be trying to cram their pastor's sermons about marriage into the law books (see North Carolina, for example), but the pope coming off the fence here should help expose those doing that for the fundy wingnuts they are.

[Siege]

[Siege]

[DontSayBanana]

First pane: I don't give two hoots about any religion until somebody tries to put it where the First Amendment says it shouldn't be and tries to slip it into my government.  Even then, my beef is with the idiot who can't follow the rules, not the religion.

Second: Fire in a movie theater.  The right of free speech has been totally unrestricted- it's just too volatile.  That said, I'll bust a quip now and then, but I'm pretty hard to seriously offend.

Third: Corporations are a tool, nothing more.  When they become mini-governments, that's where we've got problems.  Especially Apple- if they didn't think they were so big they could make their own rules, they wouldn't have to have a person appointed by the court to look over their shoulder and make sure they're not fixing e-book prices.

Fourth: Everybody should make as much money as they can.  They should just expect to be taxed accordingly.  1%ers, good.  Tax shelters, bad.  Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, good.

Fifth: It's hard to share a sandbox with somebody who keeps trying to kick you out of it.  Thankfully, that's not all conservatives, all Christians, or even all conservative Christians.

Sixth: My degree is from a public two-year school, and I'm going to a public four-year school that just applied to be relabeled a university this year.

Finally: what you've got there isn't a "liberal," that's a "trustifarian," which are ridiculed by both sides equally.

[Martinus]

I don't think we should respect all cultures and religions.

For example, I find the culture/religion of orthodox Jews deeply inferior and disgusting. 

[Norgy]

considering most long term gay relationships are sexless.

Aren't all long term relationships, gay or straight?

Yes, this is why we are single men, isn't it? The lack of sex, not our abrasive personalities.