Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[garbon]

Besides, considering the mentioned figure that 1 in 5 female students will be sexually assaulted while at university, seems like something should probably be done.

Well if that Congolese war zone rape figure was even remotely plausible then a military intervention by UN peacekeepers with strong logistics and air support is what would be needed on campuses. What parent in their right mind would send a daughter to university if this was the case and not an example of mass hysteria?

Off hand, I can think of several friends who were sexually assaulted during their time at university.

[garbon]

Yes, but should it be done by university staff - who have expertise in teaching students and academic discipline, but not necessarily in criminal law - or the police and courts?

To be honest, I'm not sure - though I think that is how it has been devised by universities. After all, historically, it has made it easier for them to keep the message on this.

I'm not sure I understand the rationale for why the universities ought to become de facto courts for criminal complaints involving students.  I understand that the "ask" in this particular protest is for expelling a student based on an allegation of rape that has not yet been proven, essentially because of public pressure built up by her protest. Why is this a good idea?

Better question is why have they become. After all, her ask stems from the fact that a Columbia University panel of 3 "judges" found that there wasn't merit to her allegations (or those of two other female students with complaints about Paul) and nothing further happened.

[The Larch]

Yes, but should it be done by university staff - who have expertise in teaching students and academic discipline, but not necessarily in criminal law - or the police and courts?

I guess that it has to be taken into account that American universities do have their own police corps in their campuses.

[Legbiter]

Off hand, I can think of several friends who were sexually assaulted during their time at university

Yes, obviously you hung out with the cool crowd in college. 

[The Brain]

I am shocked that American universities protect rapists. Penn State hasn't been closed AFAIK.

[Admiral Yi]

Off hand, I can think of several friends who were sexually assaulted during their time at university.

I would be interested in learning more.  Are you willing to share details?

I know exactly one woman that could be considered to have been sexually assaulted at university.  She got wasted at a frat party and was passed around.

[Barrister]

There does seem to be increasing pressure for universities to "do more" to combat and punish alleged rape.  I'm not sure what more can be done though unless they want to strip away due process rights for anyone accused of rape.

I don't know - I mean I read that noted article in New York magazine and it had tales of university staff saying a lot of things that indicated they weren't putting much of a priority on it.

"She says one of the three judges even asked whether Paul used lubricant, commenting, 'I don't know how it's possible to have anal sex without lubrication first.'"

"Rape is like football. If you look back on the game, and you're the quarterback..is there anything you would have done differently?"

Besides, considering the mentioned figure that 1 in 5 female students will be sexually assaulted while at university, seems like something should probably be done.

Yes, but should it be done by university staff - who have expertise in teaching students and academic discipline, but not necessarily in criminal law - or the police and courts?

I'm not sure I understand the rationale for why the universities ought to become de facto courts for criminal complaints involving students. I understand that the "ask" in this particular protest is for expelling a student based on an allegation of rape that has not yet been proven, essentially because of public pressure built up by her protest. Why is this a good idea?

Because universities regularly are involved in disciplining their students, and they are not bound by the same standards and thresholds of a criminal court.

[Barrister]

Off hand, I can think of several friends who were sexually assaulted during their time at university.

I would be interested in learning more.  Are you willing to share details?

I know exactly one woman that could be considered to have been sexually assaulted at university.  She got wasted at a frat party and was passed around.

"considered" to have been sexually assaulted?  That sounds like the very definition.

[derspiess]

Off hand, I can think of several friends who were sexually assaulted during their time at university.

How is sexual assault being defined here?  When I was in college some unattractive drunk girl grabbed my ass at a frat party-- that's technically sexual assault, isn't it?

[Legbiter]

Off hand, I can think of several friends who were sexually assaulted during their time at university.

How is sexual assault being defined here?  When I was in college some unattractive drunk girl grabbed my ass at a frat party-- that's technically sexual assault, isn't it?

Yes.

Should have carried the pants you wore that night on a pole wherever you went until justice was done.

[Malthus]

There does seem to be increasing pressure for universities to "do more" to combat and punish alleged rape.  I'm not sure what more can be done though unless they want to strip away due process rights for anyone accused of rape.

I don't know - I mean I read that noted article in New York magazine and it had tales of university staff saying a lot of things that indicated they weren't putting much of a priority on it.

"She says one of the three judges even asked whether Paul used lubricant, commenting, 'I don't know how it's possible to have anal sex without lubrication first.'"

"Rape is like football. If you look back on the game, and you're the quarterback..is there anything you would have done differently?"

Besides, considering the mentioned figure that 1 in 5 female students will be sexually assaulted while at university, seems like something should probably be done.

Yes, but should it be done by university staff - who have expertise in teaching students and academic discipline, but not necessarily in criminal law - or the police and courts?

I'm not sure I understand the rationale for why the universities ought to become de facto courts for criminal complaints involving students. I understand that the "ask" in this particular protest is for expelling a student based on an allegation of rape that has not yet been proven, essentially because of public pressure built up by her protest. Why is this a good idea?

Because universities regularly are involved in disciplining their students, and they are not bound by the same standards and thresholds of a criminal court.

Seems that is the problem. They should stick to "disciplining" students over purely academic matters, and leave criminal matters to the courts. 

It strikes me at least of creating all sorts of problems to in effect "try" someone of a serious crime in what amounts to an administrative hearing.

[Admiral Yi]

"considered" to have been sexually assaulted?  That sounds like the very definition.

I sort of wanted to avoid rehashing this old argument.  I know that by the modern definition a drunk person is unable to give consent.  I've had sex while drunk and/or stoned.  Does that mean I've been assaulted?  I think that's silly.

Should cold-fishing a passed out girl be considered assault?  Sure.

Can drunk women want to have sex too?  Of course.

[The Brain]

The gaol must flow. Innocence? Not a consideration.

[Capetan Mihali]

And the important thing in this case, of course, is whether you believe she was raped.

Oh no.  Clearly the most important thing in this case is that a New Yorker writer thinks it is a totally badass thing to do.

New York Magazine, Yi, please.  That's like a Washington Post / Washington Times level of difference, in a different realm of course.

[Admiral Yi]

My bad.