Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[Jacob]

There hasn't been much reported on how this is going over with the mainland Chinese. Obviously the government won't be reporting it to them I expect, but I would be very surprised if the news wasn't getting through anyway

From what I've heard - and this is anecdotal - there's a fair bit of "WTF are they complaining about?" Some of it is "I have no idea about the issues at all", some of it is "after all we've done for them, they're bitching? Assholes". There's also a not insignificant amount of "good luck to them."

[Admiral Yi]

The first two, yes; but that in no way undermines their cause in my view; cynical pragmatism is not always the best attitude if you're looking to alter fundamental political realities.

Pragmatism is not by definition cynical.

As for the third, no more selfish than MLK civil right marchers or Gandhi marchers or suffragettes or any other mass movement looking to alter the status quo in the face of inadequate democratic mechanisms.

What is the equivalent in those movements of the Hong Kong resident deprived of his livelihood?

[Monoriu]

The Bureaucracy as the last moneymaking sector? Those same bureaucrats doing whatever it takes to remain in power? Blue turbans vs Yellow turbans?

Looks like someone lost the Mandate of Heaven.

The Mandate of Heaven was called into question in Tian An Men, 1989.  It was confirmed not just by the tanks that rolled into the plaza, but by the vast majority of Chinese who chose to carry on their lives normally.  25 years later, history will hopefully repeat itself, this time with tear gas rather than bullets. 

[Monoriu]

There is also a third possible result:  the protests are doomed to fail, but at the same time their existence will give Beijing pause next time they try to whittle away HK's autonomy.  Protests don't always have to succeed to succeed.

I think the exact opposite will happen.  History has shown that Beijing takes a hard line against dissent.

[Monoriu]

So I am back at work.  On the footbridge that linked the train station and government HQs, there were hundreds of reporters and cameras from all over the world, and they all wanted to film and interview us civil servants as we walked back to work.  I'll not be surprised if my wife and I somehow end up in a BBC or CNN photograph. 

And everybody I know is back.  I am not aware of anybody who called in sick or took leave.  A colleague who suffered from a severe baterial infection last week that resulted in a partial loss of vision (100% blind in one eye) is also back. 

[Monoriu]

There hasn't been much reported on how this is going over with the mainland Chinese. Obviously the government won't be reporting it to them I expect, but I would be very surprised if the news wasn't getting through anyway

They are reporting it to them, in their own way of course.  There is no way the communists can block this, because millions of mainlanders come to HK as tourists, and they continue to do so.  In this case, may as well tell them the official version. 

[Monoriu]

There hasn't been much reported on how this is going over with the mainland Chinese. Obviously the government won't be reporting it to them I expect, but I would be very surprised if the news wasn't getting through anyway

From what I've heard - and this is anecdotal - there's a fair bit of "WTF are they complaining about?" Some of it is "I have no idea about the issues at all", some of it is "after all we've done for them, they're bitching? Assholes". There's also a not insignificant amount of "good luck to them."

There is some truth in those allegations.  Beijing has tried to appease us by giving us favourable economic treatment.  The most important reason they flood us with tourists is to revive our economy that was wrecked in the 2003 SARS epidemic.  They also give our banks and professionals preferential treatment when they operate on the mainland. 

[Monoriu]

Jeez, the rioters still insist in their "citizen nomination" demand, i.e. any HK citizen can nominate a candidate in the Chief Executive election.  It is explicitly stated in the Basic Law that all such candidates must be nominated by a committee.  If you want to negotiate, at least obey the letter of the law.  There are a ton of ways to get around the committee, like having some of them to be directly elected (already the case, actually), and only needing a low number of committee members to nominate a candidate.  What do they do?  MUST BE CITIZEN NOMINATION.  I really doubt if they are serious about the negotiations.  They just want to play martyr.

[garbon]

Jeez, the rioters still insist in their "citizen nomination" demand, i.e. any HK citizen can nominate a candidate in the Chief Executive election.  It is explicitly stated in the Basic Law that all such candidates must be nominated by a committee.  If you want to negotiate, at least obey the letter of the law.  There are a ton of ways to get around the committee, like having some of them to be directly elected (already the case, actually), and only needing a low number of committee members to nominate a candidate.  What do they do?  MUST BE CITIZEN NOMINATION.  I really doubt if they are serious about the negotiations.  They just want to play martyr.

Good on them. 

[Monoriu]

Jeez, the rioters still insist in their "citizen nomination" demand, i.e. any HK citizen can nominate a candidate in the Chief Executive election.  It is explicitly stated in the Basic Law that all such candidates must be nominated by a committee.  If you want to negotiate, at least obey the letter of the law.  There are a ton of ways to get around the committee, like having some of them to be directly elected (already the case, actually), and only needing a low number of committee members to nominate a candidate.  What do they do?  MUST BE CITIZEN NOMINATION.  I really doubt if they are serious about the negotiations.  They just want to play martyr.

Good on them. 

Too late.  The National People's Congress has already decided and formally announced that all candidates must be approved by half the committee.  It is as formal and official as possible. 

[mongers]

Jeez, the rioters still insist in their "citizen nomination" demand, i.e. any HK citizen can nominate a candidate in the Chief Executive election.  It is explicitly stated in the Basic Law that all such candidates must be nominated by a committee.  If you want to negotiate, at least obey the letter of the law.  There are a ton of ways to get around the committee, like having some of them to be directly elected (already the case, actually), and only needing a low number of committee members to nominate a candidate.  What do they do?  MUST BE CITIZEN NOMINATION.  I really doubt if they are serious about the negotiations.  They just want to play martyr.

Good on them. 

Too late.  The National People's Congress has already decided and formally announced that all candidates must be approved by half the committee.  It is as formal and official as possible.

The national 'people's congress has decided that the people cannot decide this.   

[Monoriu]

The national 'people's congress has decided that the people cannot decide this.   

Unhappy?  Go to Tian An Men to protest then.  That's where the Congress is located.  Not block the roads of HK people who have nothing to do with this. 

[Monoriu]

There are media reports of workers who have applied for leave from their bosses to take part in the riots. 

The response: leave granted, and it is forever. 

[Ed Anger]

Lolz

[Jacob]

Pragmatism is not by definition cynical.

Agreed, which is why I applied the modifier.

What is the equivalent in those movements of the Hong Kong resident deprived of his livelihood?

Whoever was economically inconvenienced by the mass actions taken. Are you proposing that there were none?