Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[Duque de Bragança]

I didn't know there was a film version of "Rhinoceros," but after reading some reviews I can see why I hadn't heard of it.

That's what I feared. Thanks for checking. There are a couple of TV movie versions as well in French with known actors but I guess it's more liked filmed theatre.

[LaCroix]

I assumed it must be a joke with your mischaracterization of arguments and then your bizarre litmus test on whether or not a protest should be jeered.

i thought you were comparing the civil rights protestors with the students today in terms of what they're advocating. if you meant the comparison to involve merely peoples' reactions to the protestors, then the situation seems different. the march on DC didn't intend to disrupt an important function. the students here actually want to shut down an important part of the city. people are less annoyed at protestors in a park than they are with protestors shutting down time's square.

my "bizarre litmust test" isn't anything radical, though. i can see why someone would in NYC would be frustrated with a massive occupy wall street movement. but, a massive movement protesting, say, a government's war against a neighbor, or mass discrimination, etc. are simply more valid. not every protest has the same level of validity. if beijing actually killed the one china, two systems and actively sought to subjugate hong kong (mere allegations from some posters aside, beijing hasn't done this), and hong kongans protested as a result, then i think it would be a bit more fair to criticize mono (if he had the same reaction as he's made here). do you think this is a radical stance? i think it's just... obvious.

[MadImmortalMan]

What specifically do the protestors want?

What does the average hongkongalongadingdong think they want?

What does Mono think they want?

Do they want whatever it is from Beijing or from HK?

[Admiral Yi]

My understanding is their formal request is the ability to directly nominate and elect the chief executive, without prior vetting by the (Beijing appointed) executive committee.

[The Brain]

What specifically do the protestors want?

What does the average hongkongalongadingdong think they want?

What does Mono think they want?

Do they want whatever it is from Beijing or from HK?

Pretty lame chant. No offense.

[derspiess]

What specifically do the protestors want?

What does the average hongkongalongadingdong think they want?

What does Mono think they want?

Do they want whatever it is from Beijing or from HK?

Pretty lame chant. No offense.

It has potential; just needs a little wordsmithing.

Or maybe it sounds great in Chinese?

[Sheilbh]

Yes, I think this fear in motivating Mono to post as he has in this thread. He must be one of only a few thousands civil servants in that government building/complex, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that as part of a crackdown/monitoring that they'll be threatened, explicitly or implicitly.

Granted his comments build upon his persona here, but the sudden ratcheting up of the 'judgementalism' calling these peaceful demonstrators, "rioters" "fucks" "savages" seems to much out of character, for it not to be influenced by fears/worries real or imagined or even actual external direction. 

Also there's precious few here who can get pious about someone cheering on the pepper-spraying, baton-charging wing of law enforcement. This place does it every time there's a demonstration. We are all aware they're blocking ROADS, right?

Personally I'm glad we have Mono around for this. I read a poll from a few weeks ago that showed a majority opposed Occupy Central. I suspect that the heavy-handed police response in the first night maybe swung a lot of people, if not Mono who was probably disappointed by today's restraint, but it's equally possible his is the voice of the silent majority in Hong Kong. Though I suspect there's less a fear of the welfare state for many than a fear of where this kind of confrontation with Beijing will lead.

Though the crowds did apparently increase after people left work, so maybe not all the office drones agree

Speaking of which I saw clips today of the protesters cheering the SAR flag and the PRC flag, which had, somehow, been turned upside down. I suspect that sort of splittism will worry/aggravate Beijing as much as demands for democracy.

Also most British news sources have been shit on this (BBC, obviously, has been very good) but if people are looking for liveblogs - as I was at work - the South China Morning Post one seemed really good and some really good images/stories. I loved the story of the Chief Secretary of Administration who misspoke and defended the police using 'appropriate violence'

Also this sign:

And these protesters following the cardboard sign and not sitting or standing on the grass near the war memorial:

My understanding is their formal request is the ability to directly nominate and elect the chief executive, without prior vetting by the (Beijing appointed) executive committee.

Yeah. From what I can gather Beijing's long promised Hong Kong a vote in 2017 and have said they can have it. But the National People's Congress passed a law that basically said Beijing would vet the candidates Hong Kong could vote.

From what I've read that's the key difference. In previous protests, like the one the 17 year old student leader last led over the 'patriotic' curriculum, though the policy was something Beijing wanted it actually came from the Hong Kong government. So they could back down in the face of protests and Beijing could appear unmoved. In this it's Beijing who'd have to back down and I read one legal expert who said the Hong Kong government's best option was to try and act as a broker between the two sides to reach a compromise. Unfortunately they now probably can't do that after last night.

They also want the Chief Executive to stand down that looks a lot more likely. But then Beijing may see even that as weakness, from what I understand, Zhao wasn't allowed to resign during Tianamen despite repeated attempts.

[Ed Anger]

I want some hot T-55 copy action.

[Admiral Yi]

Also there's precious few here who can get pious about someone cheering on the pepper-spraying, baton-charging wing of law enforcement. This place does it every time there's a demonstration. We are all aware they're blocking ROADS, right?

Plenty of people act as if they're unaware of the fact. 

[Sheilbh]

Also there's precious few here who can get pious about someone cheering on the pepper-spraying, baton-charging wing of law enforcement. This place does it every time there's a demonstration. We are all aware they're blocking ROADS, right?

Plenty of people act as if they're unaware of the fact. 

I know. Get the fucking army in.

In fairness they are apparently leaving pavements open for people to get to and from work.

[Valmy]

Also there's precious few here who can get pious about someone cheering on the pepper-spraying, baton-charging wing of law enforcement. This place does it every time there's a demonstration. We are all aware they're blocking ROADS, right?

Lies!  I always support the revolutionaries.

[MadImmortalMan]

Well it does sound like at least one of Mono's criticisms makes sense--that they are protesting the wrong government and should be in Beijing.

[Valmy]

Well it does sound like at least one of Mono's criticisms makes sense--that they are protesting the wrong government and should be in Beijing.

A Long March on Beijing?

[Tonitrus]

Well it does sound like at least one of Mono's criticisms makes sense--that they are protesting the wrong government and should be in Beijing.

Americans often find it appropriate to protest at their local federal building, when they have a grievance against the U.S. government, without the need to travel all the way to DC. 

[MadImmortalMan]

Well it does sound like at least one of Mono's criticisms makes sense--that they are protesting the wrong government and should be in Beijing.

A Long March on Beijing?

You have a nose for PR. Could work.