Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[Neil]

Can't say I disagree. With the likes of Hortlund and dorsey gone, I think he might be the person with the most despicable proffessed views on the board right now.

HEY WHAT ABOUT ME

Nah, going to have to go with Ide one the Despicable scale.  Your despicable views only get a B+.

See, this is why the left always fails.  Infighting is truly a curse upon the cause of the progressives.

[Duque de Bragança]

An insight into Chinese "gente de orden" (I have never known how to say that in English).

Ordinary people, maybe?  "Salt of the earth" more figuratively.

Or is it more akin to "Orderly people."  I don't think we have a good equivalent for that in English; maybe "Rank and file"?

It's pretty much the kind of character described in the Mann book Syt linked.

Ah, I don't think we have a good equivalent of that in English; which means we'll have to steal the German word. 

Bertolucci would say conformist 

[Barrister]

Y'all are much too hard on Mono.

He has a lot more to lose than any of those protestors.  All they have to worry about is being arrested and getting a criminal record (which may or may not affect their career prospects).  Mono is a career civil servant - aiding the protestors in any way would almost surely result in his termination from the only job he's ever held.

[Savonarola]

Bertolucci would say conformist 

Rhinoceros (from the Ionesco play) would be better; unfortunately he's largely unknown here.

[garbon]

Y'all are much too hard on Mono.

He has a lot more to lose than any of those protestors.  All they have to worry about is being arrested and getting a criminal record (which may or may not affect their career prospects).  Mono is a career civil servant - aiding the protestors in any way would almost surely result in his termination from the only job he's ever held.

Is anyone asking for Mono to be a cheerleader for the protesters?

[Martinus]

An anti-Mono:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvxlGUki7U

[Duque de Bragança]

Bertolucci would say conformist 

Rhinoceros (from the Ionesco play) would be better; unfortunately he's largely unknown here.

Yep, that's a very good one too.
Do you mean Ionesco and/or this particular play? I believe most  people here would say Rhinocéros is his most famous play along Le Roi se meurt (Exit the King).
It's not like Bertolucci is mostly known for Il Conformista, is it?
He's probably more famous for the Last Tango in Paris (early example of flat sharing in Paris due to  high rents according to some critic), or the Last Emperor.
Wikipedia just told me that Rhinocéros was made into a film with the likes of Gene Wilder and Karen Black.

[LaCroix]

Mono, I think I'm a lot more sympathetic to your position than the frenzied mob, but I find the language you use to describe the protesters offsetting as well.  It makes you sound spiteful.

Off putting, that's the ticket.  A little sleep deprived.

this is fair, yeah. mono just seems frustrated at the whole mess, and that frustration is mess creeping through.

while i prefer the pro-democracy camp for obvious reasons, these students don't appear to be rallying for anything game-changing. they don't seem to want to change their employment prospects (see larch's argument) or to end state-sponsored discrimination (see garbon's post). they want more democratic elections. though it's a noble goal, the current election system doesn't appear to be evil. this isn't syria, for heaven's sake. i don't disagree with the protests, because i think the protests in of themselves are a good way to remind beijing that hong kong is different from the other chinese cities. but, a civil servant venting frustration at having his life disrupted isn't some crazy, condemnable thing. it's pretty valid.

[garbon]

Mono, I think I'm a lot more sympathetic to your position than the frenzied mob, but I find the language you use to describe the protesters offsetting as well.  It makes you sound spiteful.

Off putting, that's the ticket.  A little sleep deprived.

this is fair, yeah. mono just seems frustrated at the whole mess, and that frustration is mess creeping through.

while i prefer the pro-democracy camp for obvious reasons, these students don't appear to be rallying for anything game-changing. they don't seem to want to change their employment prospects (see larch's argument) or to end state-sponsored discrimination (see garbon's post). they want more democratic elections. though it's a noble goal, the current election system doesn't appear to be evil. this isn't syria, for heaven's sake. i don't disagree with the protests, because i think the protests in of themselves are a good way to remind beijing that hong kong is different from the other chinese cities. but, a civil servant venting frustration at having his life disrupted isn't some crazy, condemnable thing. it's pretty valid.

[Savonarola]

Bertolucci would say conformist 

Rhinoceros (from the Ionesco play) would be better; unfortunately he's largely unknown here.

Yep, that's a very good one too.
Do you mean Ionesco and/or this particular play? I believe most  people here would say Rhinocéros is his most famous play along Le Roi se meurt (Exit the King).
It's not like Bertolucci is mostly known for Il Conformista, is it?
He's probably more famous for the Last Tango in Paris (early example of flat sharing in Paris due to  high rents according to some critic), or the Last Emperor.
Wikipedia just told me that Rhinocéros was made into a film with the likes of Gene Wilder and Karen Black.

I had meant Ionesco.  I didn't know there was a film version of "Rhinoceros," but after reading some reviews I can see why I hadn't heard of it.

[The Brain]

Tell me more of this movie.

[LaCroix]

[alfred russel]

Maybe I'm mistaking Mono's point of view, but from previous posts going way back, he hasn't been much of an advocate for democracy. He once put things in the perspective that the civil service ran the show when the British were in place (the UK was far away and didn't really care about day to day stuff), and that established norms that have continued to today.

It would be easy to say that he supports the deference to the civil service as a civil servant, but it also seems to align with his politics and worldview. I'm guessing he wouldn't support "true democracy" in Singapore either. In Hong Kong's case, detached British rule backing up the system has been replaced by detached Chinese rule backing up the system, so I think I may understand where he is coming from.

I'd be interested if Mono agrees.

[garbon]

I assumed it must be a joke with your mischaracterization of arguments and then your bizarre litmus test on whether or not a protest should be jeered.

[The Larch]

Maybe I'm mistaking Mono's point of view, but from previous posts going way back, he hasn't been much of an advocate for democracy. He once put things in the perspective that the civil service ran the show when the British were in place (the UK was far away and didn't really care about day to day stuff), and that established norms that have continued to today.

It would be easy to say that he supports the deference to the civil service as a civil servant, but it also seems to align with his politics and worldview. I'm guessing he wouldn't support "true democracy" in Singapore either. In Hong Kong's case, detached British rule backing up the system has been replaced by detached Chinese rule backing up the system, so I think I may understand where he is coming from.

I'd be interested if Mono agrees.

Let's see his answer, but what I can surmise from his previous posts is that, for him, Democracy = Welfare State for the "losers" = More taxes for him, and he won't have any of that.