The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Jacob]

I think that settlement has been in place for a while. From what I understand Manchin is a pretty consistent party line vote when push comes to shove, and on key things (like appointments, budget, etc). Are there many examples where the senate Dems were all on board with something except Manchin, and that made the difference?

As I understand it, Manchin is typically either one of several Dems not on board (when something is doomed already) or against the Dem mainstream when some GOP are on board (so his opposition is symbolic).

[Sheilbh]

I think that settlement has been in place for a while. From what I understand Manchin is a pretty consistent party line vote when push comes to shove, and on key things (like appointments, budget, etc). Are there many examples where the senate Dems were all on board with something except Manchin, and that made the difference?

As I understand it, Manchin is typically either one of several Dems not on board (when something is doomed already) or against the Dem mainstream when some GOP are on board (so his opposition is symbolic).

Yeah - I mean you got a pretty high level of covid stimulus, and I think infrastruture will happen too. I don't think you get the talk of Biden having had a pretty successful (and surprisingly radical) 100 days without Manchin.

From what I've read Manchin is basically fine with higher taxes and big spending, but will vote against stuff that's a culture war tripwire - which I think would actually be popular in the rest of the US too but is perfect for West Virginia. He's certainly a far, far more reliable bet than pinning the entire nation's hopes on Susan Collins which is the alternative.

[alfred russel]

I think there has to be a negotiated settlement between Democrats and Manchin.  Some things, like election protection laws, should be non-negotiable:  if you're against it or play dumb ("let's get 10 Republicans on board"), then fuck you.  On the other hand, with other things which will play very badly in WV, allow him to publicly kill some of them.  Democrats are better off with Manchin than with a Republican, but only if Manchin actually remembers he's a Democrat at least some of the time.

But you can never say "fuck you." The stimulus passed 50-50. Nominees can move 50-50 and he has supported all of them but 1 so far. A USSC justice may get through 50-50.

He also ran as a super centrist candidate. He isn't a dude that is suddenly turning more conservative. Schumer was cool running him in West Virginia understanding that he maybe supported them just 2 in 3 times on really tough issues. He is probably the only democrat on the planet that could win in a +40% trump state. It is a really bad look to get super centrist guys elected and then start giving them ultimatums to support stuff they never were on board with and are super unpopular in their states. A better strategy would be to get 3 or 4 Joe Manchin's elected, so that you can afford any one or two of them defecting on an issue.

[Razgovory]

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

Okay, fair enough.

While I think there's a real opportunity for the Democrats to make some gains on this issue, I concede that they shouldn't put Raz in charge of developing and executing the strategy.

You're loss.

[Admiral Yi]

You, on the other hand, are pure gain!

[The Minsky Moment]

Kinda proving my point there. They never hammered big on gun control.

Hammering gun control is fine, no disagreement there.

[Razgovory]

You, on the other hand, are pure gain!

Fuck. 

Eh, you guys are probably right though...

"Raz, you can't have a zero tolerance policy regarding police shootings.  Raz, you can't be as bad as they are.  Raz, you can't claim that Police Station is a military target.  Raz, you can't put hand moisturizer in fried chicken.  I never get to have any fun.

[Eddie Teach]

Hey, maybe that chicken is too dry.

[Admiral Yi]

I never get to have any fun.

Playing one of the main characters in a Medieval morality play about accounting sounds like fun. 

[Maximus]

Hey, maybe that chicken is too dry.

It's not a hand though.

Except for the fingers.

[Sheilbh]

This story is awful and the details are really horrific:

Dalian Atkinson's head was kicked like a football by police officer, murder trial told
PC Benjamin Monk also alleged to have used Taser weapon on former Aston Villa player for six times longer than guideline limit
Vikram Dodd Police and crime correspondent
Tue 4 May 2021 18.55 BST

A police officer murdered the former Aston Villa striker Dalian Atkinson, first shooting him with a Taser stun gun for 33 seconds, then kicking him in the head as though striking a football, causing his head to snap back violently, a jury heard on Tuesday.

PC Benjamin Monk denies murder and manslaughter following the incident on 15 August 2016 in Telford, Shropshire, which began at the home of Atkinson's father.

Monk is alleged to have also fired a Taser electrical weapon at Atkinson for nearly seven times longer than the standard five-second deployment.

Then, while Atkinson was on the ground and apparently unresponsive, the officer had kicked him in the head twice with such force that the imprint of Monk's laces was left on Atkinson's forehead, Birmingham crown court heard.

One witness, the jury heard, said that police "just started 'kicking the shit' out of him". The jury were told blood from Atkinson was found on Monk's boots and he had been heard to tell a paramedic: "He may be a bit bloody as I've had to kick him."

Another officer, PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, is charged with assault causing actual bodily harm, which she denies. She is alleged to have struck Atkinson with a baton while he was on the ground. The jury heard the officers were in a relationship.

Atkinson achieved fame as a striker for Aston Villa football club in Birmingham. He retired from football in 2001.

Opening the prosecution case, Alexandra Healy QC told the jury that concerned neighbours had called police at about 1.30am, with Atkinson shouting and his behaviour being described as bizarre and erratic. Monk had used a Taser stun gun on Atkinson twice without any obvious effect. The former footballer had smashed a pane of glass and had been heard to shout that he was the Messiah and could not be hurt.

The jury heard Monk had fired the stun gun a third time, which felled Atkinson in the street outside his father's home.

Healy said that a neighbour, Victor Swinbourne, had seen what happened: "He saw the male officer Taser the black male ... When he fell he sort of collapsed, making no effort to brace himself.

"The male officer immediately gave him a couple of light kicks to the torso area using the top of his right foot. Mr Swinbourne described the initial kicks as tentative. He then saw the officer pull his right foot all the way back and give the black male a final massive and powerful kick, using the toe of his right foot as the male lay motionless on the floor.

"The officer's leg went straight back and snapped forwards as though he was kicking a football. He described the motion as similar to the sort of kick that would have been required to move a ball upfield with significant force ... He believed the kick was initially to the black male's chest but given the strength of the impact it looked as though the kick bounced off the chest and hit him in the chin, because he saw the black male's head snap back."

The jury was told that Swinbourne saw Atkinson in a foetal position on his right side, with officers sitting on him as they tried to handcuff him. The court was told the neighbour heard "the black male make some horrendous noises. He described the noise as a clear breathing difficulty as if he couldn't get any air into his lungs. He was shocked at how loud it was."

Another witness had said they heard a male officer shout "keep your head down" before stamping on Atkinson's head, Healy said. The witness had said Atkinson was not resisting.

The jury heard that when another officer arrived at the scene "he noticed PC Monk had his right foot rested on Dalian's head", the prosecutor told the court. Monk had been heard by two fellow PCs, who arrived later, saying he had kicked Atkinson in the head.

Healy said both officers would later say they had feared for their lives, and were so scared that they had at one point run away from the male, before tackling him.

Healy said: "At least two kicks were delivered by [PC Monk] to Dalian Atkinson's forehead with enough force to leave the imprints of the pattern of the laces from the top of his boot on two separate areas of Mr Atkinson's forehead.

"A number of neighbours living in Meadow Close witnessed this attack. Their view was that once Dalian Atkinson had fallen to the ground he was unresponsive and still. He was no longer posing any threat to the officers. Nonetheless the two officers set about him."

Healy said Atkinson had underlying health problems, but the force used had contributed to his death.

"On the night of Sunday 14th and early hours of Monday 15 August 2016 Dalian Atkinson's behaviour was disturbed and erratic," the jury heard. "They were confronted with a man who was clearly acting in a disturbed and erratic way. They were entitled to use reasonable force to defend themselves or to protect another.

"The prosecution do not criticise their conduct prior to the discharge of the third Taser cartridge.

"However, when the deployment of the third cartridge was completely effective, causing Dalian Atkinson to experience neuromuscular incapacitation and fall to the ground, the prosecution say it was not reasonable to continue to depress the Taser for 33 seconds.

"In kicking Dalian Atkinson in the head not once, but on two separate occasions, PC Monk was not, the prosecution say, acting in self-defence or in defence of another. He was no doubt angry that he had been put in fear by this man.

"He chose to take that anger out on Dalian Atkinson by kicking him in the head ... In kicking Dalian Atkinson to the head PC Monk can only have intended to cause really serious injury."

The jury were told that just over an hour after the use of force by police, Atkinson was dead: "The pathologists and intensive care expert instructed by the prosecution agree that whilst his underlying health conditions meant that Dalian Atkinson was at a greatly increased risk of dying, were it not for the third Taser deployment and the kicks to his head, Dalian Atkinson would not have died that night."

The trial continues.

[viper37]

Opening the prosecution case, Alexandra Healy QC told the jury that concerned neighbours had called police at about 1.30am, with Atkinson shouting and his behaviour being described as bizarre and erratic. Monk had used a Taser stun gun on Atkinson twice without any obvious effect. The former footballer had smashed a pane of glass and had been heard to shout that he was the Messiah and could not be hurt.

Let no one ever tell you that drugs are bad

[grumbler]

Opening the prosecution case, Alexandra Healy QC told the jury that concerned neighbours had called police at about 1.30am, with Atkinson shouting and his behaviour being described as bizarre and erratic. Monk had used a Taser stun gun on Atkinson twice without any obvious effect. The former footballer had smashed a pane of glass and had been heard to shout that he was the Messiah and could not be hurt.

Let no one ever tell you that drugs are bad

Don't let anyone tell you that untreated mental illness is no big deal. 

[Syt]

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/you-shouldnt-be-able-to-breathe-officer-tells-man-before-he-dies

'You shouldn't be able to breathe,' officer tells man before he dies

LEWISBURG, Tenn. (WTVF) — He repeatedly told deputies he could not breathe.

But the deputies and police officers he struggled with taunted him until he died.

An exclusive NewsChannel 5 investigation is raising questions about the death of William Jennette last May inside the Marshall County Jail in Lewisburg, Tennessee.

His daughter has filed a lawsuit against the county, the city of Lewisburg and several officers for the "beating, suffocation and resultant death" of Jennette.

Video obtained by NewsChannel 5 Investigates shows three Marshall County jailers called for police back-up on May 6 of last year after Jennette refused to get into a restraint chair.

When Lewisburg Police Officer Christopher Stallings ran into the room, Jennette yelled that corrections officers were trying to kill him.

Officers wrestled Jennette to the floor where he died minutes later.

"That just breaks my heart because he was someone worth knowing," said his daughter, Dominique Jennette.

The daughter said her 48-year-old father was terrified and desperately needed help.

"That's just something that really sticks with me, how scared he must have been and how alone he must have felt," Jennette said.

Jail logs show Jennette had been "hallucinating" and "detoxing" after being arrested two days earlier for resisting arrest, public intoxication and indecent exposure.

Officers had put him in a restraint chair the day before for his own protection because he was hitting his head on the cell wall.

Then, on May 6, officers tried again, and jail cameras show things escalated quickly.

"They should have been more aware. They should have been trained properly and they weren't," Dominique Jennette said.

Much of her lawsuit focuses on what happened after officers wrestled her father to the ground.

Jennette screamed for officers to get off his back. He was face down on the floor in handcuffs continuing to struggle.

"Go get leg restraints before you do anything else, go get leg restraints," an officer said as officers were on Jennette's back.

Seconds later, Jennette said for the first time he could not breathe.

But a female officer was not sympathetic.

"You shouldn't be able to breathe, you stupid b*****d," she exclaimed.

Officers stayed on Jennette's back and even bent his legs to his back, until finally one officer said be careful of suffocating him.

"Easy, easy -- remember asphyxiation, guys."

Another officer responded, "That's why I'm not on his lungs, to let him breathe."

Jennette's last words were: "I'm good."

But an officer with his knee on Jennette's back talked back to him.

"No, you ain't good. You're going to lay right there for a f*****g minute," the officer said.

We showed the video to law professor and former police officer Seth Stoughton. He's co-written a book, "Evaluating Police Uses of Force."

"That's the exact opposite of what generally accepted training has taught officers for the last 25 years," Stoughton said.

"When the handcuffs came on, they should have rotated the guy to his side."

He was disturbed by what he saw in the video.

Stoughton said police officers have been trained since the mid-1990s about the dangers of positional asphyxiation -- suffocating someone by putting pressure on their back while they are in what's called the prone position.

"There's approximately a three-minute, 43-second period after officers have applied handcuffs where they keep the individual in the prone position, and that's not acceptable," Stoughton said.

Jennette's daughters remember their dad as a father of five, who drove a cement truck to support them.

He had been arrested before but did not have a long rap sheet.

"All he wanted was help and all he got was hate. It's not right," said daughter Calli Jennette.

Dominique Jennette added, "There were so many who could have said this wasn't right, and no one said this wasn't right,"

The autopsy listed the cause of death as "acute combined drug intoxication" with meth in his system.

But it also listed "asphyxia" as a "contributory cause of death" and ruled it a homicide.

"It just feels like my heart is constantly being ripped out of my chest, and there's no peace to that," Dominique Jennette said.

The family hopes other departments learn from what happened to their dad.

"I want to go home, and I can't go home, because he's not there to take me home anymore," Calli Jennette said.

A grand jury looked at this case but decided not to bring criminal charges against the officers.

The sheriff and the attorney for the county in this case did comment on what happened.

(videos at the link)

It also kinda sounds like he should have been in a mental facility instead of a prison cell, maybe?

[viper37]

It also kinda sounds like he should have been in a mental facility instead of a prison cell, maybe?

It seems like there a lot of people like that in the US.