Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Martinus]

So, after yesterday Polish win over Russia in volleyball, there are understandably many memes. My favourite one is of Putin saying "it wasn't our team. We did not send one to Poland. You can buy uniforms like this in any sport store".

[Zanza]

Point is, if you have somebody like Putin who throws his military weight around freely, reaping massive gains in terms of internal power and popularity, as well as international significance, you cannot counter that by saying "there is no way we are going to use military means against him". That is like being in a poker hand, openly declare that you are guaranteed to fold before the end of play, then trying to outbid your opponent.

Not really. Poker has just one means of winning the game. International politics has more than one possible course of action. If we wanted to, we could destroy the Russian economy with economic sanctions. That would be painful for us, but fatal for them. No amount of military grandstanding by Putin could change that either.

[Razgovory]

  The Russians just buzzed our airspace near Alaska with a coupler bombers to coincide with the Ukrainian visit to the US.  It's just like old times.

[mongers]

The Russians just buzzed our airspace near Alaska with a coupler bombers to coincide with the Ukrainian visit to the US.  It's just like old times.

This isn't any different to what US aircraft do nr Chinese airspace.

[Tonitrus]

Well, it is a little different in that while we're always flying recon birds along people's borders, we're not flying B-52s armed with nuclear air-launched cruise missiles along people's borders.

[Admiral Yi]

This isn't any different to what US aircraft do nr Chinese airspace.

Flying close is the only thing they have in common.

We've flown BUFFs up to the DMZ to send North Korea a message.  Sending a message with bombers is diferent than flying unarmed surveillance planes.

[mongers]

Well, it is a little different in that while we're always flying recon birds along people's borders, we're not flying B-52s armed with nuclear air-launched cruise missiles along people's borders.

But the Russian Bears weren't armed with nuclear ALCM either?

Incidentally which versions of the TU-95 were they, iirc there are maritime reconnaissance versions etc.

[mongers]

This isn't any different to what US aircraft do nr Chinese airspace.

Flying close is the only thing they have in common.

We've flown BUFFs up to the DMZ to send North Korea a message.  Sending a message with bombers is diferent than flying unarmed surveillance planes.

How close is close ?

The NORAD statement implies to around 40 miles of US sovereign airspace, what does a typical US flight nr China get to?

[Admiral Yi]

I think I just read in the Econ that we fly 22 miles from China.

[mongers]

I think I just read in the Econ that we fly 22 miles from China.

We'll a bit of googling suggest it can very a fair bit, presumably depending on where the aircraft is in the mission/what type of mission it is.

The P3/PLA jet collision took place 70 miles off land, which suggests about 55 miles out from sovereign airspace.

[Syt]

The Russians just buzzed our airspace near Alaska with a coupler bombers to coincide with the Ukrainian visit to the US.  It's just like old times.

Sweden also ordered in the Russian ambassador because Russian planes violated Swedish airspace this week ... again.

[Martinus]

mongers: a Russian spy or a useful idiot? 

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29111188

Lithuania says Russia reopens Soviet conscript cases

Russia appears to be reopening criminal investigations against Lithuanians who refused to serve in the Soviet armed forces after the country declared independence nearly 25 years ago.

The Lithuanian prosecutor-general's office says Russia has asked for legal assistance over Lithuanians who defied orders to do their Soviet military service in 1990-91, the Delfi news portal reports. But the request was denied, a spokeswoman says, since it does not involve a criminal offence in Lithuania. The news has prompted Lithuanian security services to strongly advise the relevant people not to go to Russia or other non-EU and non-Nato countries for now. Doing so could "jeopardise the personal safety of citizens", they say.

After Lithuania declared independence from the USSR in March 1990, more than 1,500 young men obeyed a call from pro-independence leaders not to join the Soviet military, according to official figures. Almost everyone went into hiding, but dozens of people were jailed or forcibly drafted. Outstanding cases were dropped after the USSR's collapse.

There is reportedly rising concern among Lithuanians that Russia is adopting a more assertive stance towards former Soviet countries. Adding to the tensions, a Russian national was arrested in March in Lithuania in connection with the 1991 attack by Soviet forces on the Vilnius TV tower, in which 14 people died.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sees-need-to-protect-russian-speakers-in-nato-baltic-states/507188.html

Russia Sees Need to Protect Russian Speakers in NATO Baltic States

Russia's Foreign Ministry says there are "whole segments of the Russian world" that may require Moscow's protection, and has singled out Baltic states by saying that Russia will not tolerate an "offensive" against its language there.

If this sounds reminiscent of the rhetoric that accompanied Moscow's annexation of Crimea, the Foreign Ministry made no secret of the intended parallel. The ministry's chief monitor of human rights overseas, Konstantin Dolgov, cited the policies of Ukraine's government in Kiev as an example of a rise of "xenophobia" in Europe, according to a transcript of a speech published by the ministry Monday.

But Ukraine is not the only place whose policies need correction, Dolgov said in his remarks, delivered over the weekend during a meeting with ethnic Russians in Latvia's capital, Riga.

"It has to be stated with sadness that a huge number of our compatriots abroad, whole segments of the Russian world, continue to face serious problems in securing their rights and lawful interests," he said. "One of the obvious and, perhaps, key reasons for this state of affairs is the unrelenting growth of xenophobic and neo-Nazi sentiments in the world."

"Neo-Nazi" was also a term that Moscow used to describe its opponents in Ukraine earlier in the crisis.

"We will not tolerate the creeping offensive against the Russian language that we are seeing in the Baltics," Dolgov said.

In what seemed to be a call for ethnically based discontent and allying with Moscow, Dolgov appealed to his ethnic Russian listeners to preserve their "true priorities and the strategic vision that unites us all."

He also pledged that Russia would "provide the most serious support for you and your activities."

Unlike Ukraine, the three former Soviet republics in the Baltic region — Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania — are members of NATO and the European Union. During a visit to Estonia this month, U.S. President Barack Obama reassured the three countries of NATO readiness to defend them against possible Russian aggression.

But the countries also have substantial ethnic Russian populations, whose rights Moscow has repeatedly claimed are being violated. Moscow also claims that the Baltic states make it difficult for Russians to obtain citizenship, whose requirements include being able to speak the local language.

Dolgov's remarks follow a series of Russia's defiant moves against Baltic states.

Russia has detained and is investigating for spying an Estonian officer who Estonia said was abducted on the border.

Russia has also reopened decades-old criminal cases against Lithuanians who refused to serve in the Soviet army after their country declared independence in 1990, the Lithuanian Prosecutor General's Office said this month, citing a request for "legal assistance" it had received from Moscow in connection with the case.

In the wake of those cases, the Lithuanian State Security Department has urged the men who had refused to serve in the Soviet army in 1990-91 to avoid traveling to Russia and limit their travels to the European Union and NATO member countries.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

and here comes the next step.

[Valmy]

Syt I am pretty sure this is no different than something the US once did at one point or another.