Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Razgovory]

That is a good point Mongers.  I don't think it's limited to military, but the lack of strong organizing principle hurts the EU everywhere.  I think that was most evident in the aftermath of the 2008 crash.  While the US certainly suffered, a strong response from the federal government averted the worst of it, while in Europe individual governments essentially tried to beggar each other and everyone ended up worse off.

[derspiess]

Maybe the European community could use an organizer.

[Ed Anger]

Maybe the European community could use an organizer.

Midnight basketball

[Admiral Yi]

I don't really get the Chechens in Donestk thing.

[Tamas]

Probably the matter of the aid trucks is settled: stuff from them shall be packed into Red Cross trucks at the border.

However, speaking of the border, it is now non-existent in a 100 kilometres wide sector: apparently while the Ukrainians were busy establishing the siege of Donetsk, the border guard forces at the south-east were surrounded by separatists. They held out for 3 weeks then now broke out and joined their main army at Donetsk, but as a result, there is absolutely no control over the Ukrainian-Russian border on a vast territory.

[The Larch]

Blind eye? IIRC the EU forced them (mostly Latvia and Estonia) to vastly improve their situation as a condition for entering the union.

From my understanding either the situation was really awful prior to EU accession, or it was barely improved.

There's still lots of statelessness and restrictions on education.

I think the Baltics (and Cyprus and Romania and Bulgaria and, maybe, Hungary) were let in too soon which meant a little weakening of standards.

IIRC what they got mostly out of it was a path to citizenship that was previously blocked for them.

[derspiess]

Probably the matter of the aid trucks is settled: stuff from them shall be packed into Red Cross trucks at the border.

However, speaking of the border, it is now non-existent in a 100 kilometres wide sector: apparently while the Ukrainians were busy establishing the siege of Donetsk, the border guard forces at the south-east were surrounded by separatists. They held out for 3 weeks then now broke out and joined their main army at Donetsk, but as a result, there is absolutely no control over the Ukrainian-Russian border on a vast territory.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Those guys were in a precarious situation and it was probably the best decision to get them out.  Hopefully Ukrainian troops are able to keep moving against the "separatists".

The Russian insurgents must be made to feel that this was a real war, and that they are to be swept away by the hand of God, like the Jews of old.

[Valmy]

And of course the example of the Baltic treatment of Russian minorities and the Euro blind eye to it is a real and unfortunate example.

Well they were put there to undermine the Baltic States' independence and enforce Russian power and control.  It is hard to imagine that going well for anybody involved.  You must treat people well who were put in your country with the purpose of creating an existential threat to your country?  Hmmmm yeah without a pretty enormous stick and a particularly yummy carrot they are not going to do that.  Suicide is a lot to ask from a country.

[Tamas]

And of course the example of the Baltic treatment of Russian minorities and the Euro blind eye to it is a real and unfortunate example.

Well they were put there to undermine the Baltic States' independence and enforce Russian power and control.  It is hard to imagine that going well for anybody involved.  You must treat people well who were put in your country with the purpose of creating an existential threat to your country?  Hmmmm yeah without a pretty enormous stick and a particularly yummy carrot they are not going to do that.  Suicide is a lot to ask from a country.

[LaCroix]

You must treat people well who were put in your country with the purpose of creating an existential threat to your country?  Hmmmm yeah without a pretty enormous stick and a particularly yummy carrot they are not going to do that.  Suicide is a lot to ask from a country.

they're people, not influence counters on a game board.

[Berkut]

People can in fact be influence counters on a game board, when they are treated as such.

[derspiess]

You must treat people well who were put in your country with the purpose of creating an existential threat to your country?  Hmmmm yeah without a pretty enormous stick and a particularly yummy carrot they are not going to do that.  Suicide is a lot to ask from a country.

they're people, not influence counters on a game board.

They're people who should be repatriated back to Russia.

[LaCroix]

People can in fact be influence counters on a game board, when they are treated as such.

a minority population can be used to justify war or extend influence. but, that's different from turning a blind eye to discrimination against a group of people because of a history completely unrelated to those specific individuals. boris isn't responsible for what russia does or did

[LaCroix]

They're people who should be repatriated back to Russia.

if the african countries started systematically deporting whites forcefully and at gunpoint, would you agree with that?

[Valmy]

You must treat people well who were put in your country with the purpose of creating an existential threat to your country?  Hmmmm yeah without a pretty enormous stick and a particularly yummy carrot they are not going to do that.  Suicide is a lot to ask from a country.

they're people, not influence counters on a game board.

They were people moved to the Baltic States to act as Russia's influence counters.  They are victims here.  I specifically said that.  So...what are you lecturing me on here?  That I should ignore realities and instead demand sunshine and lollipops for all?

Edit: By the way really glad you are posting a lot more here.  You add a lot to the discussions.