Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[The Brain]

might be a good moment to get that nucleair revival on track and replace coal, gas and oil plants with that. Provides power without having to ruin the environment by filling with windmills and solar-panels.

Agreed on getting nuclear on track, but I'm happy keeping solar and wind on track too.

Until some efficient way to store energy comes along, solar has a practical hard limit.

You need baseload sources to cover during the night (best of which is nuclear).
Solar is great to fill the gap between said base generation capacity and peak, because it's available precisely when most stuff is running ... during the day. But installing more solar than needed to fill that gap makes no sense.

Also neither solar or wind are dependable. You need to build almost a 1 to 1 backup capacity from a reliable source (coal, gas).

This is disputed. Some claim that if your grid is diversified and the grid operator is clever, you can get away with no base load plants. Example:

http://www.energyscience.org.au/BP16%20BaseLoad.pdf

They say that one of the methods to make it work is rationing smart demand management. Which means a whole new definition of "work". But let's get back to the war!

[Sheilbh]

According to Sikorski, Putin offered Tusk a partition of Ukraine:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-sikorski-idUSKCN0I92A720141020

Sikorski, who until September served as Poland's foreign minister, was quoted telling U.S. website Politico that Putin made the proposal during Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk's visit to Moscow in 2008 - although he later said some of the interview had been "overinterpreted".

"He wanted us to become participants in this partition of Ukraine ... This was one of the first things that Putin said to my prime minister, Donald Tusk, when he visited Moscow," he was quoted as saying in the interview dated Oct. 19.

"He (Putin) went on to say Ukraine is an artificial country and that Lwow is a Polish city and why don't we just sort it out together," Sikorski was quoted as saying.

[The Brain]

You can't discuss energy in here. This is the war room!

I'm curious. Is RL Brain anywhere close to Languish Brain when it comes to wit/humour?

Well, FWIW I have a reputation at work as a very funny guy who can make meetings about dry subjects hilarious.

[celedhring]

I've seen some interesting green power storage solutions using hydrogen. More efficient than current battery technology for large applications (like powering homes or industry).

https://www.gknhydrogen.com/

[Zanza]

might be a good moment to get that nucleair revival on track and replace coal, gas and oil plants with that. Provides power without having to ruin the environment by filling with windmills and solar-panels.

Agreed on getting nuclear on track, but I'm happy keeping solar and wind on track too.

Until some efficient way to store energy comes along, solar has a practical hard limit.

You need baseload sources to cover during the night (best of which is nuclear).
Solar is great to fill the gap between said base generation capacity and peak, because it's available precisely when most stuff is running ... during the day. But installing more solar than needed to fill that gap makes no sense.

Also neither solar or wind are dependable. You need to build almost a 1 to 1 backup capacity from a reliable source (coal, gas).

Batteries are quickly becoming cost efficient. Tesla has demonstrated that in Southern Australia for example. A smart grid that could maybe even use the batteries of plugged in electric vehicles etc. is feasible.

[Zanza]

Yeah, that is a big issue Zanza.  BC is a good case study - we could be 100% hydro electric but the natural gas industry has done an excellent job promoting itself as the best for hot water heaters, stove tops and heating generally.  It would take extensive retrofitting of most homes in this province before the gas could be turned off.

The message there should not be "Damn, this is hard....we can't do it" but "Damn, this is hard, so we should get started as soon as possible".

I have big hopes here for our new government.  Let's see if they can deliver where Merkel's government failed.

[Zanza]

According to Sikorski, Putin offered Tusk a partition of Ukraine:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-sikorski-idUSKCN0I92A720141020

Sikorski, who until September served as Poland's foreign minister, was quoted telling U.S. website Politico that Putin made the proposal during Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk's visit to Moscow in 2008 - although he later said some of the interview had been "overinterpreted".

"He wanted us to become participants in this partition of Ukraine ... This was one of the first things that Putin said to my prime minister, Donald Tusk, when he visited Moscow," he was quoted as saying in the interview dated Oct. 19.

"He (Putin) went on to say Ukraine is an artificial country and that Lwow is a Polish city and why don't we just sort it out together," Sikorski was quoted as saying.

Wouldn't have been the first time Russia partioned a country, although usually the Poles where at the receiving end...

[Iormlund]

Batteries are quickly becoming cost efficient. Tesla has demonstrated that in Southern Australia for example. A smart grid that could maybe even use the batteries of plugged in electric vehicles etc. is feasible.

Not as long as they are cycle-limited and it costs thousands of Euros to replace the batteries on your Tesla. I'm not cutting the life of my car by 80% or whatever while the energy companies can continue to gouge my eyes out.

[Josquius]

According to Sikorski, Putin offered Tusk a partition of Ukraine:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-sikorski-idUSKCN0I92A720141020

Sikorski, who until September served as Poland's foreign minister, was quoted telling U.S. website Politico that Putin made the proposal during Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk's visit to Moscow in 2008 - although he later said some of the interview had been "overinterpreted".

"He wanted us to become participants in this partition of Ukraine ... This was one of the first things that Putin said to my prime minister, Donald Tusk, when he visited Moscow," he was quoted as saying in the interview dated Oct. 19.

"He (Putin) went on to say Ukraine is an artificial country and that Lwow is a Polish city and why don't we just sort it out together," Sikorski was quoted as saying.

From a limited sample it strikes me many people from the west of Ukraine would actually be quite happy with this.

[Iormlund]

This is disputed. Some claim that if your grid is diversified and the grid operator is clever, you can get away with no base load plants. Example:

http://www.energyscience.org.au/BP16%20BaseLoad.pdf

We have plenty of empirical evidence of what happens when, say, an anticyclone sits atop Europe (which is not exactly extraordinary). Spoiler alert: it's not good. See Spain in the picture and compare that to France:

[The Larch]

Nucelar   

[Jacob]

Nucelar   

It's nicelar to have nucelar.

[Malthus]

This is disputed. Some claim that if your grid is diversified and the grid operator is clever, you can get away with no base load plants. Example:

http://www.energyscience.org.au/BP16%20BaseLoad.pdf

We have plenty of empirical evidence of what happens when, say, an anticyclone sits atop Europe (which is not exactly extraordinary). Spoiler alert: it's not good. See Spain in the picture and compare that to France:

I wouldn't claim to know one way or the other, this is a very technical field in which I'm no expert  - just pointing out that at least some claim it is possible.

I suppose it would in part depend on how big the relevant grid is. The bigger the grid, the less local fluctuations will affect it. Though if you have events affecting the whole of Europe, there may be no way to make the grid big enough to deal with that.

To my mind having done nuclear plants as back up just makes sense, but they take a long time to build. I think Germany was nuts to get rid of theirs, and we are seeing why right now ...

[Tamas]

Russian news announced the separatists have officially requested Russian military help to repeal a "Ukrainian offensive" against them.

[Iormlund]

To my mind having done nuclear plants as back up just makes sense, but they take a long time to build. I think Germany was nuts to get rid of theirs, and we are seeing why right now ...

Typically you'll use hydro or gas to act as backup because they can spool up relatively quickly to meet demand peaks (you are always playing juggler trying to match demand and generation or you'll have under/overvoltage in the grid). Also the upfront cost of nuclear plants is way too high just for backup purposes.

Unless things have changed since I studied the matter, nuclear works as an always-on source (see the graphs).