Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[The Larch]

I wonder how feasible would be sanctions that target Putin's inner circle where it hurts, seizing all those London penthouses, Mediterranean villas, yatchs and other luxury baubles they've accumulated over the years with their ill gotten gains. 

Weirdly early in this crisis Putin's yacht moved back to Russia - from Germany. And I cannot understand why the yacht was ever in Germany as opposed to, say, the Med or the Caribbean. I assume he likes Baltic holidays

Repairs? Maintenance? Ships spend quite a lot of time undergoing one thing or the other when not in operation.

I don't know in response to your question though. It would be complex for sure because it'll all be complex corporate structures across lots of jurisdictions that is deliberately designed to obscure actual beneficial ownership (unless you take a bit of a sledgehammer approach and authorise expropriation on a lower threshold).

Oh sure, it wouldn't (or couldn't) be a surgical approach, but a rather broad one. Litigation can take place later, anyway. In any case, AFAIK investigative journalists have been able for a while to link those oligarchs/Putin stooges to specific properties in the west for a while, so if they can, states willing to implement those sanctions should be able to do likewise.

Fuck, let's take it to 11, ban Russian companies from operating in the EU, at least state owned ones. Kick Gazprom in the nuts.

I think there's a case for this. I'm not sure there's much of a genuine Russian private sector that is outside of control of people associated with the state.

In case gas suppies were at risk and some countries chickened out of steep sanctions because of this, they should at the very least forbid their advertising. No more Gazprom ads on Champions League games, for instance.

Also, still dealing with Gazprom, they have tons of subsidiaries all over Europe that should also be targeted, as well as several joint ventures with other gas companies. Just in the EU they have (According to wiki):

Austria
ARosgas Holding AG (100%) - gas marketing
Centrex Europe Energy & Gas AG (100%) - owned through Gazprombank
GHW (50%) - joint venture with OMV for gas trading
Sibneft Oil Trade GmbH (100%) - oil trading company owned through Gazprom Neft
Vienna Capital Partners (???%) - financial advisor and investor
ZGG-Zarubezhgazneftechim Trading GmbH (100%) - 0gas trading company
ZMB Gasspeicher Holding GmbH (66.67%) - 33.3% owned by Centrex Europe Energy & Gas AG[5]

Bulgaria
Topenergo (100%) - gas trading and transport
Overgas Inc. AD (50%) - joint venture with Overgas Holding AD for the gas trading

Cyprus
Ecofran Marketing Consulting & Communication Services Company Limited
GASEXCO Gas Exploration Company Ltd.
Greatham Overseas Limited
Private Company Limited by Shares GPBI (Cyprus) Ltd.
Leadville Investments Ltd (100%) - investment company
MF Media Finance (Overseas) Limited
Odex Exploration Ltd. (20%) - oil exploration
NTV World Ltd. - media company
Siritia Ventures Ltd. - investment company

Czech Republic
Gas-Invest S.A. (37.5%)
Vemex s.r.o. (Gazprom Germania owns 51%)

Estonia
Eesti Gaas AS (37.02%)

Finland
Gasum Oy (25%)

France
Frangaz (50%) - joint venture with Gaz de France

Germany
Agrogaz GmbH (100%)
Centrex Beteiligungs GmbH (38%) - gas trading and investment company
Ditgaz (49%)
VNG - Verbundnetz Gas AG (5.3%) - gas transportation and marketing
Gazprom Germania GmbH (100%)
Wingas GmbH (100%) - joint venture with Wintershall, the subsidiary of BASF, for gas trading
astora GmbH (50%) - joint venture with Wintershall, the subsidiary of BASF, for gas storage
GASCADE GmbH (50%) - joint venture with Wintershall, the subsidiary of BASF, for gas transportation
Wintershall Erdgas Handelshaus GmbH & Co. KG (50%) - joint venture with Wintershall for gas trading
НТВ Europa GmbH[3]

Greece
Prometheus Gas (50%) - joint company with Copelouzos Group

Hungary
Panrusgáz (40%) - trading and transport of natural gas
Borsodchem (25%) - petrochemicals
TVK (13.5%)
DKG-EAST Co (38.1%) - oil and gas equipment manufacturing
Gazkomplekt KFT
NTV Hungary Commercial Limited Liability Company[3]

Ireland
GPB Finance Plc. - investment company

Italy
Promgas (100%) - joint venture with ENI
Volta SpA (49%) - joint venture with Edison S.p.A.

Latvia
Latvijas Gāze (34%)

Lithuania
Kaunas CHP (100%)
Stella Vitae (30%)

Netherlands
Brochan B.V.
BSPS B.V. (50%) - operator of the Blue Stream pipeline
Gazinvest Finance B.V.
Gazprom Finance B.V.
Gazprom EP International B.V. (100%)
Gazprom Sakhalin Holdings B.V. - owns 50%+1 share in Sakhalin Energy, the operator of the Sakhalin-II oil and gas field
NTV Plus B.V.
NTV-НТВ Holding and Finance B.V
PeterGaz B.V.
Sib Finance B.V.
West East Pipeline Project Investment (100%) - construction and investment company[3]

Poland
EuRoPol Gaz (48%) - operator of the Polish section of Yamal-Europe pipeline registered name: SYSTEM GAZOCIĄGÓW TRANZYTOWYCH "EUROPOL GAZ" SPÓŁKA AKCYJNA
Gas Trading (18.4%) - gas trading (exact name not found in registers) registered name: WARSAW GAS TRADING SPÓŁKA Z OGRANICZONĄ ODPOWIEDZIALNOŚCIĄ

Romania
WIEE Romania SRL (50%) - gas distribution
WIROM Gas S.A. (2&%) - gas trading, controlled through WIEH

Slovakia
Slovenský plynárenský priemysel - 49% shares are owned by Slovak Gas Holding B.V., a consortium of Gaz de France and E.ON Ruhrgas[9] Gazprom was part of consortium winning the privatisation of Slovenský plynárenský priemysel, but hasn't never entered the company.
Slovrusgaz (50%) - gas trading and transport

Slovenia
Tagdem (7.6%) - gas trading

And in the UK:

United Kingdom
Gazprom UK Ltd (100%)- investment company
Gazprom Marketing and Trading Limited (GM&T) (100%) - energy trading
HydroWingas (25%) - gas trading
Interconnector (UK) Limited (10%) - operator of the Interconnector pipeline
Sibur International (100%) - petrochemicals
WINGAS Storage UK Ltd. (33%) - underground gas storage reconstruction

[Jacob]

How many Western assets are in Russia, vulnerable to retaliatory expropriation or other sanctions.

[DGuller]

How many Western assets are in Russia, vulnerable to retaliatory expropriation or other sanctions.

None that the West should worry about, IMO.  If you were dumb enough or greedy enough to put assets in Russia, you deserve to be an example to others.  Russia made it clear long before this conflict that your assets on Russian soil are Russia's, but they may be nice enough to continue letting you use them.  Just don't do anything to annoy Russia, don't be from a country that does something to annoy Russia, and don't flash your assets in front of powerful oligarchs.

[Admiral Yi]

I know BP used to have a large stake in Rosneft.  Don't know if they still do.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I know BP used to have a large stake in Rosneft.  Don't know if they still do.

I believe they still have 20% and board representation.

[Zanza]

Weirdly early in this crisis Putin's yacht moved back to Russia - from Germany. And I cannot understand why the yacht was ever in Germany as opposed to, say, the Med or the Caribbean.

It was in the Blohm&Voss shipyard in Hamburg. There is a photo that shows it docked right next to a German navy corvette.

[Solmyr]

I wonder how feasible would be sanctions that target Putin's inner circle where it hurts, seizing all those London penthouses, Mediterranean villas, yatchs and other luxury baubles they've accumulated over the years with their ill gotten gains. 

Fuck, let's take it to 11, ban Russian companies from operating in the EU, at least state owned ones. Kick Gazprom in the nuts.

Targeting sanctions at Russian oligarchs can be difficult when they also hold citizenships of Western countries. You probably cannot sanction your own citizens too effectively.

[Sheilbh]

It was in the Blohm&Voss shipyard in Hamburg. There is a photo that shows it docked right next to a German navy corvette.

I had a North Sea seaside holiday in December and I enjoy it as much as the next man, but if I had a yacht it would be in warm waters. Repairs makes more sense.

In case gas suppies were at risk and some countries chickened out of steep sanctions because of this, they should at the very least forbid their advertising. No more Gazprom ads on Champions League games, for instance.

Also, still dealing with Gazprom, they have tons of subsidiaries all over Europe that should also be targeted, as well as several joint ventures with other gas companies. Just in the EU they have (According to wiki):

Yeah - I mean Europe is not in a position to stop using Russian gas. My understanding is the infrastructure is not physically there to transition from pipeline to LNG yet so if Russian gets cut off, from my understanding there will be a gap in energy supplies. Practically I think we need to stop increasing European dependency on Russian gas and start building alternatives.

But agree on the rest.

Targeting sanctions at Russian oligarchs can be difficult when they also hold citizenships of Western countries. You probably cannot sanction your own citizens too effectively.

Or their kids do - certainly in the UK there's a second generration who were born here, they're UK citizens, they've lived in the UK most of their lives and went to British schools and universities. They're in their twenties or thirties - obviously they have a lot of money which I assume they are basically getting from their family. We could do with someone using those Unexplained Wealth Orders

I think with the oligrachs there's a strong case for stripping citizenship but I think that's far more difficult with their children.

[Syt]

One of the bigger FF14 streamers/YouTubers is Zepla (I still follow her on Twitter). She posted on Twitter that she's leaving for Western Ukraine (she lives in the Kiev, normally).

[Josquius]

They're expecting Poland to swoop in and reclaim lwow or something?

[Tamas]

They're expecting Poland to swoop in and reclaim lwow or something?

I'd imagine they are heading east, unless they are already stockpiling for standing their ground west of the Dnepr or something.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally just to go back on the money laundering point - I think seizing assets is probably secondary. The key, in my view, is stopping the industry that enables money to flow out of Russia (and Ukraine, Central Asia, the Caucus, China, the Gulf, Africa etc) and get laundered into solid assets in the West. We can deal with the currently existing assets later and that probably is a function of sanctions and things like that. But it's like trying to empty a river with a bucket if we don't stop the Western lawyers, estate agents, finance advisors etc who have created the money laundering system.

[Tamas]

Incidentally just to go back on the money laundering point - I think seizing assets is probably secondary. The key, in my view, is stopping the industry that enables money to flow out of Russia (and Ukraine, Central Asia, the Caucus, China, the Gulf, Africa etc) and get laundered into solid assets in the West. We can deal with the currently existing assets later and that probably is a function of sanctions and things like that. But it's like trying to empty a river with a bucket if we don't stop the Western lawyers, estate agents, finance advisors etc who have created the money laundering system.

Don't hold your breath.

[Syt]

Incidentally just to go back on the money laundering point - I think seizing assets is probably secondary. The key, in my view, is stopping the industry that enables money to flow out of Russia (and Ukraine, Central Asia, the Caucus, China, the Gulf, Africa etc) and get laundered into solid assets in the West. We can deal with the currently existing assets later and that probably is a function of sanctions and things like that. But it's like trying to empty a river with a bucket if we don't stop the Western lawyers, estate agents, finance advisors etc who have created the money laundering system.

You will find that there's a lot of people who find their net revenues a lot more crucial than Western Values or Liberal Democracy. These people also have a tendency to be quite well connected, politically.

[Tamas]

Parliamentarians from Russia's ruling party have proposed a draft resolution to seek the foreign ministry's view on whether to call for the recognition of two breakaway Ukrainian regions as independent.

The State Duma, Russia's lower house, is due to discuss the proposal from the United Russia party later today. A final resolution would then be sent to President Vladimir Putin, according to the Reuters news agency.

Whatever they'll end up doing, they sure work on getting CBs.

Meanwhile Putin is consulting with his closest colleagues, the foreign and defense ministers: