Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Barrister]

Interesting Twitter thread:  https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1612852512838807557

Back in December it appears that Ukraine killed 80+ Russian civilians in a HIMARS strike in Luhansk.  These civilians were digging defensive trenches for the Russian army outside a barracks being developed in an old school.

This raises the old debate from the movie Clerks, but seems by most to be fully justified as those civilians as they are giving an "effective contribution to military action".

I thought you lot might find the question to be interesting.

[Valmy]

Yeah I mean if you are creating weapons and defenses for the purposes of killing other people, it seems reasonable that those people should be allowed to defend themselves. Even in strategic bombing I don't think anybody considers actually destroying a munitions factory as a warcrime, even if it is filled with workers. It is all the collateral damage that is the atrocity.

[The Brain]

Even if they had just been standing there you can't shield military installations with civilians.

[Josquius]

They're not even working in a factory producing war material. They were right in occupied territory digging defense lines.
Obviously a military target, no debate.
To get near the border of acceptable you'd need to look towards say people working in a factory making chips with some military applications.

[Admiral Yi]

100 Ukrainians have arrived in the US to start training on the Patriot.

[HVC]

100 Ukrainians have arrived in the US to start training on the Patriot.

What is synopsis of a porn video, Alex.

[mongers]

Putin really is trying to recreate the USSR, no matter what the cost, they're piling up the bodies in no-man's land in an effort to win over huge salt/gypsum mine workings.

Guess he needs another place to send all of those political prisoners.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yeah, Putin really lives in the past. Wouldn't be surprised if he joined a skiffle band.

[Josquius]

Putin really is trying to recreate the USSR, no matter what the cost, they're piling up the bodies in no-man's land in an effort to win over huge salt/gypsum mine workings.

Guess he needs another place to send all of those political prisoners.

I have read there is potential strategic value in those mines, their tunnels stretching for many miles.
Which has quite the cartoon villain taste to it.

[Sheilbh]

Downing Street spokesman confirmed UK is planning to provide tanks. I think the next international meeting coordinating support is next week. But they've confirmed that UK's working with partners on further support "including the provision of tanks".

Poland's also announced it's intending to send tanks - although these are Leopards and the German government have said they're not aware of any formal export request from anyone. So this may be them getting over their skis a little.

But on why so much attention on the Leopard I think it's because Europe has a lot it could send beyond just Germany. Obviously Greece and Turkey won't because they need to point them at each other, but Finland and Poland both want to for example (via German think tanker):

[Tamas]

I guess the disadvantage of the Leopard 2 is that Hungary has bought a whole bunch so Russian agents must have gone through of all their nooks and crannies by now.

[frunk]

I guess the disadvantage of the Leopard 2 is that Hungary has bought a whole bunch so Russian agents must have gone through of all their nooks and crannies by now.

Russia knows the nooks and crannies of most of what Ukraine is using now, being of Soviet vintage, but it doesn't seem to help them much.

[Barrister]

I guess the disadvantage of the Leopard 2 is that Hungary has bought a whole bunch so Russian agents must have gone through of all their nooks and crannies by now.

Russia knows the nooks and crannies of most of what Ukraine is using now, being of Soviet vintage, but it doesn't seem to help them much.

Even all the western gear Ukraine has been getting is almost entirely decades old.

HIMARS goes back to the 90s.  M777 has been in service since 2005.  Javelin has been used since 1996.  The Bradley (which Ukraine is just now getting) goes back to 1981.

But when Russia is using 1960s-era tech it doesn't matter much.

[Josquius]

Knowing e.g. "The type of tank Ukraine is using has a weakness in the lower left sector of its frontal armour" isn't much good when you're struggling to get your troops to just point their AK the right way.

[Zoupa]

Russia is bardak all the way down. They can have the full schematics, it won't matter.