Nasa validates 'impossible' space drive

[grumbler]

Yeah, except this has a shelf life, since it doesn't reproduce the way natural plant life does.  Consequently, you're still talking finite tanks of material to produce these, and nobody's indicated their actual O2 yield, so we can't assume their O2 yield would be greater than an equivalent volume of tanked O2.

Actually, plants don't reproduce in space, and need nutrients and lots of other finite resources, so we are always talking about finite amounts of oxygen produced per volume/weight devoted to the task.  Efficiency is the measuring stick here, not reproduction.

[DontSayBanana]

Actually, plants don't reproduce in space, and need nutrients and lots of other finite resources, so we are always talking about finite amounts of oxygen produced per volume/weight devoted to the task.  Efficiency is the measuring stick here, not reproduction.

Sigh.  Somebody didn't read my post, where I took great pains to quote *specifically* the colonization use case.  I'm talking about using this as a long-term alternative to terraforming/hydroponics/other agricultural methods of plant production.

[grumbler]

Actually, plants don't reproduce in space, and need nutrients and lots of other finite resources, so we are always talking about finite amounts of oxygen produced per volume/weight devoted to the task.  Efficiency is the measuring stick here, not reproduction.

Sigh.  Somebody didn't read my post, where I took great pains to quote *specifically* the colonization use case.  I'm talking about using this as a long-term alternative to terraforming/hydroponics/other agricultural methods of plant production.

*Sigh* Someone doesn't understand the concept of the oxygen cycle, where you have to add to the system to keep it going, no matter what system you are using.  Even in *specifically* the colonization case, you have to add fertilizers (in the case of Mars, for instance, you will have to ship in all of the phosphorous you need, as Mars almost completely lacks it) to plants to allow them to convert CO2 to oxygen.  So, again, you are looking at efficiency, not reproduction, as your guide.

*sigh* You may need to grow plants for all or part of your food supply, but the plants that efficiently produce food are not necessarily the plants that efficiently produce oxygen.  The "artificial leaf" gives you another arrow in the quiver.

*Sigh* I just oversaw in the spring term an independent study project by three of my students on the colonization of Mars, and I can tell you that this "artificial leaf" concept would have made a significant difference.

[Caliga]

*sigh*

[grumbler]

*sigh*

It's the sigh of the tiger
It's the yawn of the fight
Giving up to the strawman of our rival
And the internet lawyer
Talks his crap in the night
And he's posting it all with the sigh of the tiger

[Caliga]

 

[DontSayBanana]

Actually, plants don't reproduce in space, and need nutrients and lots of other finite resources, so we are always talking about finite amounts of oxygen produced per volume/weight devoted to the task.  Efficiency is the measuring stick here, not reproduction.

Sigh.  Somebody didn't read my post, where I took great pains to quote *specifically* the colonization use case.  I'm talking about using this as a long-term alternative to terraforming/hydroponics/other agricultural methods of plant production.

*Sigh* Someone doesn't understand the concept of the oxygen cycle, where you have to add to the system to keep it going, no matter what system you are using.  Even in *specifically* the colonization case, you have to add fertilizers (in the case of Mars, for instance, you will have to ship in all of the phosphorous you need, as Mars almost completely lacks it) to plants to allow them to convert CO2 to oxygen.  So, again, you are looking at efficiency, not reproduction, as your guide.

*sigh* You may need to grow plants for all or part of your food supply, but the plants that efficiently produce food are not necessarily the plants that efficiently produce oxygen.  The "artificial leaf" gives you another arrow in the quiver.

*Sigh* I just oversaw in the spring term an independent study project by three of my students on the colonization of Mars, and I can tell you that this "artificial leaf" concept would have made a significant difference.

Dude, you're so full of crap we should just send you to fix any fertilizer problems.

Again, this doesn't replace an agricultural solution because the raw materials/assets in an agricultural solution can be repurposed to serve multiple uses.  Livestock would be renewable sources of both fertilizer and food.  This is why for a colony's longevity, I'll back the idea that terraforming > sealed system agriculture > synthetics all day, every day.

Oh, by the way, since you opened the door by talking about your students working on Mars colonization projects, what kind of project are we talking?  Classroom thought exercise?  School science week?  Or has their stuff actually been looked over as part of a massive student study by JPL/NASA like mine was?  Go take your "internet lawyer" ad hom and grow a tree to suck up some of the CO2 you're wasting.

[grumbler]

Dude, you're so full of crap we should just send you to fix any fertilizer problems.

Again, this doesn't replace an agricultural solution because the raw materials/assets in an agricultural solution can be repurposed to serve multiple uses.  Livestock would be renewable sources of both fertilizer and food.  This is why for a colony's longevity, I'll back the idea that terraforming > sealed system agriculture > synthetics all day, every day.

None of that has anything to do with the issue.  The artificial leaf provides an additional, possibly more efficient, method of processing carbon dioxide into carbon and oxygen.  The argument that " this has a shelf life, since it doesn't reproduce the way natural plant life does" is meaningless, because plants don't reproduce unless they are provided with all kinds of additional materials, some of which won't be available on a colony (like phosphorous on Mars) unless imported.  It is a matter of efficiency, not a matter of reproduction.  It may well be that, since phosphorous is difficult to transport, plant growth in a Mars colony will be limited to foodstuffs, and that the artificial leaf will provide the extra capability needed for oxygen recycling.

Oh, by the way, since you opened the door by talking about your students working on Mars colonization projects, what kind of project are we talking?  Classroom thought exercise?  School science week?  Or has their stuff actually been looked over as part of a massive student study by JPL/NASA like mine was?  Go take your "internet lawyer" ad hom and grow a tree to suck up some of the CO2 you're wasting.

We are talking about an independent study course by three students on the requirements for establishing and maintaining a permanent Mars colony.  They were not part of some "massive student study."  As far as who "looked over" their work, it was a friend of mine named Ellen Stofan who served as their mentor and evaluator.   Go ahead and google the name.  She won't be hard to find, since she is NASA's Chief Scientist.  Guess what project she is, in fact, currently investigating?   

As far as an "internet lawyer" "ad hom" is concerned, you might want to look up the meaning of ad hom (aka "ad hominem argument") before you misuse the term again.  You might also want to reconsider your policy of stating legal mistruths with assurance.

[Razgovory]

With such a device, you destroy all life on earth on accident!

[Norgy]

*sigh*

It's the sigh of the tiger
It's the yawn of the fight
Giving up to the strawman of our rival
And the internet lawyer
Talks his crap in the night
And he's posting it all with the sigh of the tiger

Internet debates: Described.

[Norgy]

With such a device, you destroy all life on earth on accident!

Que the misanthropic world-weary poster:
Would that be such a bad thing?

[The Brain]

¿Que?

[Razgovory]

With such a device, you destroy all life on earth on accident!

Que the misanthropic world-weary poster:
Would that be such a bad thing?

Depends if you have lived a full life with no regrets.

[Norgy]

Basically a semi-empty one with a bag full of regrets.

[PDH]

I am getting old enough that I have forgotten my regrets.  I compensate by making new ones.