Question about Soviet Historiography

[grumbler]

Wasn't it like a jealous husband, though, instead of retribution for war crimes?  Or am I confusing him with another Nazi war criminal?

I think it is pretty commonly accepted that he was killed in retribution by French communists.  IIRC, he had received death threats and he was armed and fired weapons in his own defense (in his house) when he was killed, so it wasn't like someone just stepped up behind him on the street and killed him, or shit him in a rit of fealous jage.

[DGuller]

That's something I don't get.  The guy slaughters 100+ of your own soldiers after they surrendered, and he gets 15 minutes of community service?  In a perverse way, I can understand Americans not taking crimes against Soviet POWs seriously, but you can't just forget the mass murder of your own.

Pieper was sentenced to death at his trial.  The problem was that the testimony used to convict him was gained by illegal meqans, and he had several eyewitnesses (Americans who were treated properly by him) to set against the tainted affidavits.  His execution was thus delayed, and when the shitstorm broke about the use of torture to get the affidavits, his sentence was commuted to life.  Eventually, like most of the lifers, he was released.  He served something like 12 years in prison, so it wasn't just "community service."

That said, he should probably have been executed, but its an imperfect world.  He didn't "get away" with anything, he just benefited from some over-zealous prosecutors.

Ok, I may have exaggerated a little.

[Razgovory]

A lot of those SS guys got away with light sentences.

[Ed Anger]

A lot of those SS guys got away with light sentences.

Otto Skorenzy.

[Eddie Teach]

A lot of those SS guys got away with light sentences.

Otto Skorenzy.

Was he one of your socks? 

[Ed Anger]

No.

[Duque de Bragança]

So what terrible things did the Western Allies do between 1945 & 1948?  And whatever those things were, how do they compare with Soviet soldiers' behavior in occupied Germany during that timeframe?

The French tried to annex Saarland. Even FIFA was involved, with its founder Jules Rimet pushing for FC Saarbrück in the French league.

[frunk]

So what terrible things did the Western Allies do between 1945 & 1948?  And whatever those things were, how do they compare with Soviet soldiers' behavior in occupied Germany during that timeframe?

The French tried to annex Saarland. Even FIFA was involved, with its founder Jules Rimet pushing for FC Saarbrück in the French league.

Well, trying is much worse than actually taking chunks out of other countries.

[HVC]

So what terrible things did the Western Allies do between 1945 & 1948?  And whatever those things were, how do they compare with Soviet soldiers' behavior in occupied Germany during that timeframe?

The French tried to annex Saarland. Even FIFA was involved, with its founder Jules Rimet pushing for FC Saarbrück in the French league.

Well, trying is much worse than actually taking chunks out of other countries.

the intention is the same, it's only the outcome that's different.

[grumbler]

So what terrible things did the Western Allies do between 1945 & 1948?  And whatever those things were, how do they compare with Soviet soldiers' behavior in occupied Germany during that timeframe?

The French tried to annex Saarland. Even FIFA was involved, with its founder Jules Rimet pushing for FC Saarbrück in the French league.

They tried to annex Saarland?  When, and what stopped them?  Sounds an awful lot like hyperbole.  If you are referring to the French attempts (and even a treaty with Germany) to make the Saar independent, that was defeated by a vote of the people of the Saar.  If the people are allowed the decisive vote, that's not anything like what happened in, say, Silesia.

[derspiess]

Didn't the Dutch annex a small part of Germany and then sell it back?  IIRC they wanted to annex a bigger chunk than what they got. 

Seems very un-Dutchlike.

[Duque de Bragança]

So what terrible things did the Western Allies do between 1945 & 1948?  And whatever those things were, how do they compare with Soviet soldiers' behavior in occupied Germany during that timeframe?

The French tried to annex Saarland. Even FIFA was involved, with its founder Jules Rimet pushing for FC Saarbrück in the French league.

They tried to annex Saarland?  When, and what stopped them?  Sounds an awful lot like hyperbole.  If you are referring to the French attempts (and even a treaty with Germany) to make the Saar independent, that was defeated by a vote of the people of the Saar.  If the people are allowed the decisive vote, that's not anything like what happened in, say, Silesia.

They annexed it in 1797-1814 indeed but that's outside of the scope of this discussion.

Martim referred to it in the Monnet Plan which was larger in scope and abandoned even earlier.
It was a French protectorate for a while, and back then when coal actually mattered, the French kept special rights till 1981.
Hyperbole is not mine, it's Adenauer's

Der Name ,Protektorat' wäre vielleicht noch zu gut. Man könnte eher von einer ,Kolonie' sprechen – doch das werde ich nicht tun »

Protectorate was too kind of a word, colony would be better but I won't say it.

As for the FIFA part, it's true as well but it was more in jest.
The Saarfranzosen (SaarFrench) is still somewhat used for the Saar people by people from inner Germany. Dialect is heavily influenced by French also, as in Aachen. Classic border area phenomenon.

[Maladict]

Didn't the Dutch annex a small part of Germany and then sell it back?  IIRC they wanted to annex a bigger chunk than what they got. 

Seems very un-Dutchlike.

Which part? The annexation, the sale or the ludicrous annexation plans?

[grumbler]

Martim referred to it in the Monnet Plan which was larger in scope and abandoned even earlier.

So that wasn't an attempt to annex the Saarland, it was an abandoned concept.

It was a French protectorate for a while, and back then when coal actually mattered, the French kept special rights till 1981.

Yes, it was a special protectorate.  That's not annexation.

Hyperbole is not mine, it's Adenauer's

Der Name ,Protektorat' wäre vielleicht noch zu gut. Man könnte eher von einer ,Kolonie' sprechen – doch das werde ich nicht tun »

Protectorate was too kind of a word, colony would be better but I won't say it.

No annexation there, either.  The hyperbole is yours.

[Valmy]

Didn't the Dutch annex a small part of Germany and then sell it back?  IIRC they wanted to annex a bigger chunk than what they got. 

Seems very un-Dutchlike.

Which part? The annexation, the sale or the ludicrous annexation plans?

The sale.  Since when have the Dutch ever been motivated by money?