Forget Red State, Blue State: Is Your State "Tight" or "Loose"?

[Admiral Yi]

Good point Mimsy.

[Valmy]

What is the SF lifestyle?  Laying around with the Sea Lions?

[MadImmortalMan]

Funny story--We were in a nice French restaurant in SF one day (waiting for my wife's passport probably), and this pair of guys were sitting next to us. We caught snips of their conversation here and there. Basically, they had worked together before, software engineers, and one of them had lived in SF for a while working at an incubator. The other guy was visiting.

Visitor: "You look more and more hipster every time I see you".

SF Guy: "This place kinda does that to you." "When in Rome, I guess."

Then SF guy ordered calamari fried to a crisp. I believe "ruined" was the term he used. I guess the assimilation was complete enough that he'd order calamari but not enough to cook it properly. 

Oh, and SF Guy had a full beard with hair all plastered over to one side, highwater pants, etc. He did indeed look very hipster.

[garbon]

[Ideologue]

I had a full beard till I shaved it into a sweet goatee (that is, I concede, getting a little too long).  I have: high testosterone.

[MadImmortalMan]

I guess the thing is that they must not be including enough things in their definitions of tightness and looseness, and they are misapplying a value to either where they ought not.

Texas has no zoning laws. That's the definition of loose.

Is that good or bad? Depends on whether you like booby bars next to elementary schools. Which Texas has.

Need a license to start a business? Tight. Can't drive in the left lane unless you have a passenger? Tight. Can you build a Barbie theme park in your front yard or produce and sell goats' milk out of your garage? Can you buy vodka on a Sunday?

Independent farmers in Maine have recently rebelled over rules about selling their whole milk to the public. Tight.

It seems to me the tightest places tend to be the ones on highest population density. Which makes sense. As the number of people living together increases, so does the friction between them, and the problems that need rules (or customs) to solve.

But then those concentrated places tend to be the most lefty ones. So, I'm confused. Is tightness even bad?

[Sheilbh]

So many issues are so extremely correlated with blue/red state and between themselves, that it's really hard to figure out the causal link.  You can come up with dozens of driving factors, and all would explain the chasm very well.

I always think the best is crowded places v open spaces. Which I think was David Brooks'.

[garbon]

I guess the thing is that they must not be including enough things in their definitions of tightness and looseness, and they are misapplying a value to either where they ought not.

Texas has no zoning laws. That's the definition of loose.

Is that good or bad? Depends on whether you like booby bars next to elementary schools. Which Texas has.

Need a license to start a business? Tight. Can't drive in the left lane unless you have a passenger? Tight. Can you build a Barbie theme park in your front yard or produce and sell goats' milk out of your garage? Can you buy vodka on a Sunday?

Independent farmers in Maine have recently rebelled over rules about selling their whole milk to the public. Tight.

It seems to me the tightest places tend to be the ones on highest population density. Which makes sense. As the number of people living together increases, so does the friction between them, and the problems that need rules (or customs) to solve.

But then those concentrated places tend to be the most lefty ones. So, I'm confused. Is tightness even bad?

"Harrington and Gelfand measure a state's tightness or looseness based on indicators such as the legality of corporal punishment in schools, the general severity of legal sentences, access to alcohol and availability of civil unions, level of religiosity, and the percent of the population that is foreign."

It isn't just about the presence of any kind of laws.

[Admiral Yi]

"Harrington and Gelfand measure a state's tightness or looseness based on indicators such as the legality of corporal punishment in schools, the general severity of legal sentences, access to alcohol and availability of civil unions, level of religiosity, and the percent of the population that is foreign."

It isn't just about the presence of any kind of laws.

That's pretty much Mimsy's entire point.  The authors of the study overlooked aspects of looseness and tightness that didn't fit into their neat little red/blue paradigm.

[DGuller]

So many issues are so extremely correlated with blue/red state and between themselves, that it's really hard to figure out the causal link.  You can come up with dozens of driving factors, and all would explain the chasm very well.

I always think the best is crowded places v open spaces. Which I think was David Brooks'.

I agree with that.  That kind of correlation seems to be very universal across both cultures and time, and it has the most compelling causation argument.

[Josquius]

So the we hate big government types actually love big government. Surprise surprise

[Admiral Yi]

So the we hate big government types actually love big government. Surprise surprise

Only takes one guy to pull the switch on an electric chair.

[Eddie Teach]

Good point Mimsy.

Is he: a borogove?

[garbon]

Funny story--We were in a nice French restaurant in SF one day (waiting for my wife's passport probably), and this pair of guys were sitting next to us. We caught snips of their conversation here and there. Basically, they had worked together before, software engineers, and one of them had lived in SF for a while working at an incubator. The other guy was visiting.

Visitor: "You look more and more hipster every time I see you".

SF Guy: "This place kinda does that to you." "When in Rome, I guess."

Then SF guy ordered calamari fried to a crisp. I believe "ruined" was the term he used. I guess the assimilation was complete enough that he'd order calamari but not enough to cook it properly. 

Oh, and SF Guy had a full beard with hair all plastered over to one side, highwater pants, etc. He did indeed look very hipster.

At any rate, here's a bit on SF that seems fairly accurate based on my stint there.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mattlynley/23-words-that-have-a-totally-different-meaning-in-san-franci

[OttoVonBismarck]

SF fucking sucks.