The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[LaCroix]

everyone is quick to jump on the "turkey supporting ISIS?" bandwagon when turkish airspace violations and the potential for a downed plane has been talked about since russia got involved in this mess. there might be evidence that comes out in the future that turkey has supported ISIS in some way, but that evidence doesn't exist yet - if it did, we'd know about it. especially now. all putin has are baseless allegations in an attempt to get people on russia's side

[Liep]

everyone is quick to jump on the "turkey supporting ISIS?" bandwagon when turkish airspace violations and the potential for a downed plane has been talked about since russia got involved in this mess. there might be evidence that comes out in the future that turkey has supported ISIS in some way, but that evidence doesn't exist yet - if it did, we'd know about it. especially now. all putin has are baseless allegations in an attempt to get people on russia's side

We have no idea of knowing where that plane was or what it was doing. But Turkey better have evidence that its national security was threaten or else it's quite a step to shoot down a piloted flight.

[LaCroix]

We have no idea of knowing where that plane was or what it was doing. But Turkey better have evidence that its national security was threaten or else it's quite a step to shoot down a piloted flight.

turkey has provided evidence, and i believe the evidence (it's not like turkey is claiming russia flew straight through asia minor). turkey doesn't want to start an international incident, but it won't back down from one either.

re: national security was threatened, it was if russia planned and then did violate turkey's internationally agreed upon airspace. if you let russia fly through, you give russia lots of power (or let them think they have power) over you.

(edit) putin wants to keep everyone distracted from russia's aggression re: ukraine/georgia. if a swiss fighter jet crossed this territory, turkey wouldn't have shot it down. if an american fighter jet aimed at bombing ISIS crossed this territory (without permission), turkey wouldn't have shot it down. this was about keeping russian aggression in check more than anything to do with ISIS.

[jimmy olsen]

Putin: "It's no wonder that IS acts so boldly when it has the backing of a nation's armed forces"

That's war talk right there.

He's also accusing Turkey of aiding IS in its oil selling business.

That's certainly true.

[Liep]

turkey has provided evidence, and i believe the evidence (it's not like turkey is claiming russia flew straight through asia minor). turkey doesn't want to start an international incident, but it won't back down from one either.

re: national security was threatened, it was if russia planned and then did violate turkey's internationally agreed upon airspace. if you let russia fly through, you give russia lots of power (or let them think they have power) over you.

(edit) putin wants to keep everyone distracted from russia's aggression re: ukraine/georgia. if a swiss fighter jet crossed this territory, turkey wouldn't have shot it down. if an american fighter jet aimed at bombing ISIS crossed this territory (without permission), turkey wouldn't have shot it down. this was about keeping russian aggression in check more than anything to do with ISIS.

From a layman's view it's hard to see the necessity of shooting down a manned flight because of this:



Weather or not Russia wanted to escalate this to distract from its other shady business I don't know either. Seems like a risky move to remove focus from something most people in the west already forgot about.

[jimmy olsen]

Rescue helicopter downed.

How reliable is this paper?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621677/Reports-Russian-helicopter-shot-down-while-searching-downed-jets

BREAKING: Russian helicopter shot at with missile by Syrian rebels as second pilot 'dead'

A RUSSIAN helicopter has been downed while searching for the pilots who ejected from their burning jet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has confirmed.

[Liep]

It's also on the beeb. But they say it was just forced to an emergency landing.

[LaCroix]

turkish air defense sees trajectory, warns russian plane. plane ignores warning(s). a violation of airspace by an extremely aggressive bordering nation can be enough. in the past, planes have been shot down for just that and the world moves on.

i don't think russia wanted this incident either. either the pilots of that plane were reckless or russia didn't think there'd be this response. my point re: putin is that putin is retaliating through baseless accusations to try and get the international community to side against turkey. that, and maybe economic sanctions imposed by russia (if feasible?), is really all russia can do.

[Syt]

turkish air defense sees trajectory, warns russian plane. plane ignores warning(s). a violation of airspace by an extremely aggressive bordering nation can be enough. in the past, planes have been shot down for just that and the world moves on.

Turkey gave Russia warnings on previous violations and said they'd take aggressive measures in future. So this doesn't come out of the blue.

Could be Russia thought they were bluffing, though.

[KRonn]

Rescue helicopter downed.

How reliable is this paper?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621677/Reports-Russian-helicopter-shot-down-while-searching-downed-jets

BREAKING: Russian helicopter shot at with missile by Syrian rebels as second pilot 'dead'

A RUSSIAN helicopter has been downed while searching for the pilots who ejected from their burning jet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has confirmed.

I'm very much hoping that no Russian pilots of any of the aircraft gets captured by ISIS or like minded types. That would be a horrid fate and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Plus a huge propaganda event for ISIS.

[Syt]

Russia advised its citizens against traveling to Turkey, saying the chance of terrorist attacks is as big as in Egypt. A large package tour company has cancelled all Turkey trips.

Tomorrow's visit by FM Lavrov to Turkey has, unsurprisingly, been canceled.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Rescue helicopter downed.

How reliable is this paper?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621677/Reports-Russian-helicopter-shot-down-while-searching-downed-jets

BREAKING: Russian helicopter shot at with missile by Syrian rebels as second pilot 'dead'

A RUSSIAN helicopter has been downed while searching for the pilots who ejected from their burning jet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has confirmed.

That is a paper that is designed to frighten old ladies, I'd usually try and get confirmation elsewhere.

[Maladict]

Both pilots have been killed while parachuting down. That should get a response.

[Valmy]

Both countries have been going out of their damn minds for awhile now.

Austerity has got to end Euros. Time to see to your defenses.

[DGuller]

Erdogan is the kind of leader Turkey needs right now.