The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Caliga]

In the mean time, American should do some soul searching as to how exactly they managed to convince themselves to commit the worst foreign policy blunder in its country's history.  Blaming GWB is like blaming Putin:  easy and justified, but far from complete.

I don't recall there having been a referendum for whether or not we should have gone into Iraq, and it's not like Bush Jr. said during the 2000 election campaign he was gonna do that.  For the record, if there had been a referendum I would have voted no as I was strongly opposed to the Iraq invasion.

[DGuller]

In the mean time, American should do some soul searching as to how exactly they managed to convince themselves to commit the worst foreign policy blunder in its country's history.  Blaming GWB is like blaming Putin:  easy and justified, but far from complete.

I don't recall there having been a referendum for whether or not we should have gone into Iraq, and it's not like Bush Jr. said during the 2000 election campaign he was gonna do that.  For the record, if there had been a referendum I would have voted no as I was strongly opposed to the Iraq invasion.

There is always a referendum, they're called polls.  GWB wouldn't go in if Americans didn't overwhelmingly support such a misadventure at the time.

[KRonn]

We should let Erdogan go in and reestablish Turkish rule over the region. I am serious. He looks like megalomanical enough to actually want it, and I think many locals would prefer the rule of a muslim civilised country's army over the utter chaos that's happening there.

I would agree that many Muslims in the contested areas would embrace another Arab army and control from a civilized neighbor like Turkey. However, I'm sure that neither Erdogan nor the Turkish people and government want to do anything like that as they'd just wind up with a rebellious insurgency which would sap their ability to control. If a number of Muslim nations went in on it, like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan then it might be doable but these same nations are having trouble dealing with Yemen which is probably a lot less problematic in comparison.

[jimmy olsen]

People overstate how bad ISIS are. They're not much worse than some of the other rebel fighters and their allies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. Or the Syrian government and their allies in Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Iran. It wouldn't be a disaster if they took over the region.

The Saudis are satisfied with ruling Saudi Arabia. ISIS has mad plans for world conquest. They're going to keep invading/rising up in new countries until they're stopped, and given how many Muslim countries there are that are unstable that's a long list. If they incite a sectarian civil war in S.A. the world economy will tank.

[Valmy]

There is always a referendum, they're called polls.  GWB wouldn't go in if Americans didn't overwhelmingly support such a misadventure at the time.

Let me just say his government misrepresented what was at stake. And IIRC there was some pretty outspoken and significant opposition to the war. One of my big gripes at the time was that it was a bad idea to do with while public opinion was so divided.

[Valmy]

I would agree that many Muslims in the contested areas would embrace another Arab army and control from a civilized neighbor like Turkey. However, I'm sure that neither Erdogan nor the Turkish people and government want to do anything like that

The Turks remember being betrayed by the Arabs and have nothing but contempt for them. At least that is the impression I get from talking to the Turks around here and they are about as open minded westernized Turks as you will find.

[PJL]

People overstate how bad ISIS are. They're not much worse than some of the other rebel fighters and their allies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. Or the Syrian government and their allies in Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Iran. It wouldn't be a disaster if they took over the region.

The Saudis are satisfied with ruling Saudi Arabia. ISIS has mad plans for world conquest. They're going to keep invading/rising up in new countries until they're stopped, and given how many Muslim countries there are that are unstable that's a long list. If they incite a sectarian civil war in S.A. the world economy will tank.

It's Saudi Arabia that are funding ISIS anyway directly or indirectly. If they didn't exist, the ME would be a much better place. Get rid of them and their allies, and Iran (which is merely a Shia inspired version of Sauda Arabia), and you solve the ME problem.

[Caliga]

The Turks remember being betrayed by the Arabs and have nothing but contempt for them. At least that is the impression I get from talking to the Turks around here and they are about as open minded westernized Turks as you will find.

There are a lot of Turks around you?  Neat.   The only Turkish dude I am aware of here owns a Turkish restaurant.  He used to have two, one very near my office, but that one closed.  Shame as the food kicked ass.

[Valmy]

It's Saudi Arabia that are funding ISIS anyway directly or indirectly. If they didn't exist, the ME would be a much better place. Get rid of them and their allies, and Iran (which is merely a Shia inspired version of Sauda Arabia), and you solve the ME problem.

Nonsense. The existence of these two states is a result of ME problems, not their cause.

[Caliga]

There is always a referendum, they're called polls.  GWB wouldn't go in if Americans didn't overwhelmingly support such a misadventure at the time.

If I recall correctly Dubya prided himself on not caring about public opinion polls and just doing whatever the hell he wanted.

[Valmy]

There are a lot of Turks around you?  Neat.   The only Turkish dude I am aware of here owns a Turkish restaurant.  He used to have two, one very near my office, but that one closed.  Shame as the food kicked ass.

Yes some of my best friends are Turks...and I say that unironically. I have Ramadan with them every year. I do love the food but it is Greek food called different words

No problem I am a huge fan of Grurk food.

[Valmy]

There is always a referendum, they're called polls.  GWB wouldn't go in if Americans didn't overwhelmingly support such a misadventure at the time.

If I recall correctly Dubya prided himself on not caring about public opinion polls and just doing whatever the hell he wanted.

Well yeah he was the unClinton.

[Caliga]

Well yeah he was the unClinton.

Right, and he pointedly mocked Clinton for caring about opinion polls during his first Presidential campaign.

My reaction to that was "ummm, isn't the President supposed to do what the people want?"

[derspiess]

My reaction to that was "ummm, isn't the President supposed to do what the people want?"

Sometimes you gotta lead.  It's one thing to care about opinion polls, but Clinton often seemed to govern by them.

[Admiral Yi]

If you always do what the people want, you end up as Greece.