The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

Started by Tamas, June 10, 2014, 07:37:01 AM

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Razgovory

Quote from: grumbler on May 21, 2015, 08:55:22 PM
This is why we can't have nice things.

Grumbler muses about his Sumerian roots. 

Rare portrait of Grumbler as wide-eyed youth.

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

DontSayBanana

Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2015, 08:35:13 AM
While the Shiite militias are much better than the Iraqi army, they're still not that good. They outnumbered ISIS ten to one in the second battle of Tikrit yet they lost as many men as ISIS did in the fighting.

I wasn't debating the quality of the fighters- I was saying that it's really disingenuous to line people up to infer that ISIS is fixating on the Sunnis; it's not going to burn itself out when it runs out of Sunnis to kill.
Experience bij!

jimmy olsen

#3032
They're driving on the Habbaniyah military base. That's Iraqis 1st Division HQ <_<

http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/isil-closes-on-habbaniyah-military-base-after-seizing-another-iraqi-town
Quote
ISIL closes on Habbaniyah military base after seizing another Iraqi town

May 22, 2015 Updated: May 22, 2015 01:38 PM

BAGHDAD // ISIL has seized another town in Iraq's western Anbar province, less than a week after capturing the provincial capital, Ramadi, a tribal leader said Friday.

Sheikh Rafie Al Fahdawi said the small town of Husseiba fell overnight when police and tribal fighters withdrew after running out of ammunition.

"We have not received any assistance form the government. Our men fought to the last bullet and several of them were killed," he said.

Husseiba is about seven kilometres east of Ramadi, where ISIL militants routed Iraqi forces last weekend in their most significant advance in nearly a year.

Mr Al Fahdawi said that with the fall of Husseiba, the militants have come closer to the strategic Habbaniyah military base, which is still held by government forces.

"The situation is very critical. The militants are about 5km from Habbaniyah base, which is now in great danger," he said.

A day earlier, ISIL militants captured the Iraqi side of a key border crossing with Syria after Iraqi government forces pulled out. The fall of the Al Waleed crossing, also in Anbar, will help the militants to shuttle weaponry and reinforcements more easily across the Iraqi-Syrian border.

The Iraqi government plans to launch a counteroffensive in Anbar involving Iranian-backed Shiite militias, which have played a key role in rolling back the IS group elsewhere in the country. The presence of the militias could however fuel sectarian tensions in the Sunni province, where anger at the Shiite-led government runs deep.

Meanwhile, in north-west Syria, Al Nusra Front overran a hospital where at least 150 Assad regime forces and dozens of civilians were trapped for nearly a month, a monitor said.

The group, Al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, and other factions "have taken complete control of Jisr Al Shughur hospital," said Rami Abdel Rahman, who heads the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

The monitoring group's head said "dozens" had managed to flee but others were killed, wounded or taken hostage, without giving exact figures.

Rebel groups have made a series of major gains in Idlib province, including its capital, that they seized on March 28.

On Tuesday, rebels took control of Al Mastumah, the regime's largest military base in the province.


It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Warspite

Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 21, 2015, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2015, 08:35:13 AM
While the Shiite militias are much better than the Iraqi army, they're still not that good. They outnumbered ISIS ten to one in the second battle of Tikrit yet they lost as many men as ISIS did in the fighting.

I wasn't debating the quality of the fighters- I was saying that it's really disingenuous to line people up to infer that ISIS is fixating on the Sunnis; it's not going to burn itself out when it runs out of Sunnis to kill.

ISIS is a Sunni Arab movement. The local factions backing it do so because they believe it's their best shot at some minimum level of security - very much the reason why the Taliban was able to control large parts of Afghanistan until 2001.

People rightly point out that ISIS are dreadfully brutal. But this is more indicative of the fact that the alternative to ISIS - Shia or Alawite domination, or complete anarchy - is even worse.
" SIR – I must commend you on some of your recent obituaries. I was delighted to read of the deaths of Foday Sankoh (August 9th), and Uday and Qusay Hussein (July 26th). Do you take requests? "

OVO JE SRBIJA
BUDALO, OVO JE POSTA

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Warspite on May 22, 2015, 07:14:02 AM
ISIS is a Sunni Arab movement. The local factions backing it do so because they believe it's their best shot at some minimum level of security - very much the reason why the Taliban was able to control large parts of Afghanistan until 2001.

People rightly point out that ISIS are dreadfully brutal. But this is more indicative of the fact that the alternative to ISIS - Shia or Alawite domination, or complete anarchy - is even worse.

Given the atrocities already recorded as being done by ISIS, I don't think that that "conventional wisdom" holds true anymore.  I don't necessarily think Shia/Alawite control would necessarily be better, per se, but I do think it would be, at worst, the same.
Experience bij!

Warspite

Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 22, 2015, 07:30:07 AM
Quote from: Warspite on May 22, 2015, 07:14:02 AM
ISIS is a Sunni Arab movement. The local factions backing it do so because they believe it's their best shot at some minimum level of security - very much the reason why the Taliban was able to control large parts of Afghanistan until 2001.

People rightly point out that ISIS are dreadfully brutal. But this is more indicative of the fact that the alternative to ISIS - Shia or Alawite domination, or complete anarchy - is even worse.

Given the atrocities already recorded as being done by ISIS, I don't think that that "conventional wisdom" holds true anymore.  I don't necessarily think Shia/Alawite control would necessarily be better, per se, but I do think it would be, at worst, the same.

But it is not a singular group sweeping through this territory; it is relatively small cadres being joined by local allies who give ISIS its mass and facilitate its local control.
" SIR – I must commend you on some of your recent obituaries. I was delighted to read of the deaths of Foday Sankoh (August 9th), and Uday and Qusay Hussein (July 26th). Do you take requests? "

OVO JE SRBIJA
BUDALO, OVO JE POSTA

Ed Anger

Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2015, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 21, 2015, 08:55:22 PM
This is why we can't have nice things.

Grumbler muses about his Sumerian roots. 

Rare portrait of Grumbler as wide-eyed youth.



I laughed
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

jimmy olsen

It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Norgy

All this could've been avoided if there somehow was a strong, moustached dictator in place in Iraq. One that had occasionally sought to buy weapons from the USSR, the US, Germany and France and gotten them. A mistake such as a small incursion into Kuwait (who the fuck cares about a bunch of people living off slave labour and au pairs anyway) would easily have been forgotten.

The ISIS is a big fuck you to our very own foreign policy failures, and particularly to the Dubya years. It's mostly on the GOP, altogether, I'd say. Retards.

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Norgy

Retards in government should always be blamed.
It's: The Law.

dps

Quote from: Norgy on May 23, 2015, 10:52:00 AM
All this could've been avoided if there somehow was a strong, moustached dictator in place in Iraq. One that had occasionally sought to buy weapons from the USSR, the US, Germany and France and gotten them. A mistake such as a small incursion into Kuwait (who the fuck cares about a bunch of people living off slave labour and au pairs anyway) would easily have been forgotten.

The ISIS is a big fuck you to our very own foreign policy failures, and particularly to the Dubya years. It's mostly on the GOP, altogether, I'd say. Retards.


Getting rid of Saddam was absolutely the right thing to do.  The problem was with the plans for reconstruction, to the extent that there were any.  We should have planned on keeping Iraq under US military rule for at least 20 years.

grumbler

Quote from: dps on May 23, 2015, 11:47:18 AM
Getting rid of Saddam was absolutely the right thing to do.  The problem was with the plans for reconstruction, to the extent that there were any.  We should have planned on keeping Iraq under US military rule for at least 20 years.

But... but... the Iraqis welcomed the troops with flowers!

but I agree with you.  The degree to which people romanticize murderously psychopathic dictators continues to astonish me.  The main difference between Saddam and ISIS is that Saddam never pretended to be above corruption.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Tonitrus

Quote from: grumbler on May 23, 2015, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: dps on May 23, 2015, 11:47:18 AM
Getting rid of Saddam was absolutely the right thing to do.  The problem was with the plans for reconstruction, to the extent that there were any.  We should have planned on keeping Iraq under US military rule for at least 20 years.

But... but... the Iraqis welcomed the troops with flowers!

but I agree with you.  The degree to which people romanticize murderously psychopathic dictators continues to astonish me.  The main difference between Saddam and ISIS is that Saddam never pretended to be above corruption.

But I bet murderously psychopathic radical groups like ISIS will never get the trains to run on time.  :mad:

citizen k



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/22/isis-and-the-new-army-of-conquest-in-syria-are-headed-for-a-showdown.html

Quote

ISIS and the New 'Army of Conquest' in Syria Are Headed for a Showdown


Assad is in trouble. But ISIS moving in from the east may hit the rebels closing in from the north.

Two successive months and two stunning battlefield reversals for the embattled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad—one dealt him in the east by the so-called Islamic State, the other in the north by a new coalition of rebel forces that includes an affiliate of al Qaeda in a leading role. Now, as the two armies look to expand their territorial gains at the Assad regime's expense, they're also converging on each other.

The clash between the terror state widely known as ISIS and the newly emerged Jaish al Fata, or Army of Conquest, is likely to come sooner than later. Most likely it will happen in the vicinity of Homs, referred to by many rebels as "the capital of the revolution." Ironically (or maybe not), Homs stands on the ancient caravan route between the ISIS-overrun Palmyra and the Mediterranean.

U.S. officials have been arguing in recent weeks that the ISIS/Syria/Iraq war is destined to last a long time, saying there are no signs the parties are exhausted yet or that foreign backers are ready to call a halt to the carnage, as they eventually did with the long-running Lebanese civil war. "We remain in a period of dangerous military stalemate, and it is likely to continue for some time," argues Randa Slim of the Middle East Institute, a think tank in Washington.

That may be so, but as Slim acknowledges, "the trend in Syria today is definitely not in favor of the regime." That's a point her colleague at the institute, former Ambassador Robert Ford, emphasized even before the fall of Palmyra, arguing, "Despite constant Western media assessments that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's situation is secure, the reality is that the Syrian war is one of attrition. And minority regimes usually do not fare well in prolonged wars of attrition."

There are signs that Assad is hedging his bets now, preparing for a last stand in the Alawi coastal strongholds. Rebel commanders say for weeks now the Assad regime has been stockpiling more military gear in the mountain redoubts of his minority Alawi sect, an offshoot of Shia Islam, in preparation to carve out a rump state.

Earlier this month, Assad was uncharacteristically somber when addressing a commemoration ceremony in Damascus, urging Syrians to help buck up the morale of the army. That morale won't have been helped by the rout in Palmyra, which saw the defending force disintegrate in seven days in the face of a much smaller force of attackers, with Syrian government officers retreating pell-mell, leaving hundreds of their soldiers behind.

So inept was the defense of Palmyra and the nearby city of Tadmur that some observers wondered if Assad abandoned the site with its unique ruins and irreplaceable ancient artifacts and treasures deliberately, to gain Western sympathy support. The jihadis can be counted on to  set about looting and smashing up the unique site. But the strategic importance of the city dominating the highway from Damascus, used to resupply remaining government forces in the eastern province of Deir ez Zour, would suggest that defeat there was not part of any twisted Syrian regime plan. And it wasn't just ancient monuments that were lost. Tadmur has what may be the largest arms depot in Syria and a major airbase that is now out of the Assad regime's reach.


    "The Syrian war is one of attrition. And minority regimes usually do not fare well in prolonged wars of attrition." - former Ambassador Robert Ford


For ISIS commanders, as for their resurgent rebel foes in the Army of Conquest, the question is likely the same now: Should they consolidate gains or press on with expansionary offensives against a reeling, hard-pressed Syrian government? The smart move for ISIS would be to consolidate, smooth out the front lines and oust the isolated government forces left in Deir ez Zour. This is what Joshua Landis, who runs the Syria Comment blog and is a professor at the University of Oklahoma, suspects ISIS will do. "Deir is presumed to be next big push," he tweeted in the hours after the fall of Palmyra.

But caution doesn't appear to be in the ISIS gene. Time and again the group has used force mobility despite U.S. surveillance and airstrikes to undertake the riskier course, opening up new fronts to wrong-foot opponents. Jonathan Schanzer, an analyst with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, says the jihadis "need to continue to conquer territory in order to survive." He adds: "Pillage, plunder, and tax is how the group generates income for itself. If it ceases to do so, it will find itself with dwindling resources, particularly as the U.S. targets its oil fields and other assets."

Battered Homs, Syria's third largest city, is exposed and presents an inviting target—seizing "the capital of the revolution" would be a symbolic gesture for a group that is always keenly conscious of symbolism. Homs was first captured by the Muslims in the seventh century, when Umar ibn Al-Khattab, considered one of the greatest caliphs, took it away from Byzantine Christians and sun-worshippers. It is not hard to see that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-styled Caliph Ibrahim, would relish seizing the city for his putative caliphate.

The Army of Conquest's commanders are discussing Homs as a possible next major target in a debate that has them swinging between striking at Latakia on the coast or Hama and then Homs, with Damascus as the distant prize.

In so many ways the Army of Conquest and the ISIS terror army are mismatched. The former probably has more manpower available than ISIS, especially as the jihadis have had to shift Syria-based fighters to Iraq.

A triangular fight over Homs, up against both the Army of Conquest and Assad's forces, may be too big a battle for ISIS at the moment. Its victories have been based on lightning speed, with hundreds of fighters targeting weak defenses. But the jihadis possess smart tactical leadership and their fighters are motivated in the way only religious fanatics are, with a zealous readiness to die.

When they are up against highly motivated opponents, as they were in the battle for the Kurdish town of Kobani, they can be defeated. But it's never easy. At Tikrit, a few hundred ISIS fighters held off significantly larger Shia and Iraqi forces for weeks. Palmyra also featured just a few hundred highly motivated fighters who made a swift seven days' work of a large force that had good re-supply lines back to Damascus.

Some commanders and fighters in the Army of Conquest exhibit almost a relieved surprise at their win in Idlib and after four years of war some still lack self-confidence. Among the fighters in Aleppo, confidence is in short supply, says Lina Chawaf, the editor of the independent radio station Rozana. On a recent trip to the rebel-held half of the city, she noticed the insurgents in Aleppo "don't have a hope to beat Assad" and "many of them were saying there is no solution except a negotiated political solution."

Assad still has two major battlefield advantages—his air power and the support of foreign allies: Iran, Russia, and the Lebanese Shia movement Hezbollah. Those advantages are the big variables. In the past with Hezbollah fighters in the vanguard of his forces and Iranian commanders present and directing tactics, Assad was able to pull off military gains. Both at Idlib and Palmyra, Hezbollah and foreign Shia fighters in large numbers were noticeably absent, presumably because Hezbollah has had to focus on defending the rugged Qalamoun region running alongside part of the border with Lebanon, from rebel attack.

One of the biggest variables could well come down to money. Inadvertently (although rebels would argue conspiracy is afoot), the U.S. could throw Assad a cash lifeline, depending on the timing of nuclear negotiations with Iran and the lifting of sanctions if a deal is reached.

"The Syrian regime, while currently on its heels, is about to get a massive cash injection from Iran when the nuclear deal goes through," argues the FFD's Schanzer. "Iran is set to receive roughly $120 billion in cash. A portion of that will undoubtedly go to Syria, which Iran views as its 35th province."

And the war goes on.