The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Grey Fox]

What are we suppose to do? Even those that are being slaughtered don't like us.

Did you get out there and show solidarity with Hamas?  I would appreciate at least a little solidarity for an entire people who are not even launching rockets at anybody.

No, I stand with Israel.

I don't know how you can give solidarity to a force that will turn on you the moment it feels safe to do so.

Can you name any incidents of Yazidi terrorism?

I can not however that doesn't mean that they are any different and don't hate us like the rest them.

[Razgovory]

Interesting/sad historical fact about the Yazidis is that, according to Gertrude Bell, during the Armenian genocide they sheltered thousands fleeing the Turks

That's unusual given what I've read (wikipedia) about their obsession with purity and not mixing with outsiders too much. But nice.

I hope abrahanic monotheism doesn't claim another victim

[LaCroix]

Um this is not a gang fight.  These are ancient civilizations being massacred.  Women and children.  But hey those kids are a bunch of ghetto thugs who deserve it eh?  For um...being there in the way or something.  So much for "humanitarians".

and ghetto thugs are people, too, etc. the idea is perception. hamas are a bunch of illiterate backwater people, while israel is a western nation. there is a higher expectation on how israel acts than how hamas acts. i mean, why do you think so many people dislike israel? they're not all anti-semitic - that's an intellectually bankrupt argument.

[Eddie Teach]

Israel's not really a western nation though.

[LaCroix]

Israel's not really a western nation though.

i'm not concerned about definitions of western nation and whether israel fits under it. israel has the technology, the democratic government, the espoused ideals, etc. it's a "civilized nation." people don't care about rivalries in other parts of the third world regions nearly as much as they care about israel and palestine.

[DGuller]

I agree with that.  I think that Arab on Arab conflict is like when one gangbanger kills another.  People rarely get outraged about that.  Israel vs Palestine is when a cop shoots a ganbanger in a situation that is not clearly justifiable.  Plenty of people will be all up in arms about policy brutality then, and some will blab on about how the cops are worse than any criminal.

[Queequeg]

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/7/5981449/president-obamas-full-statement-on-the-iraq-crisis?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=voxdotcom&utm_content=thursday



Good.  Turn those fuckers in to meat potpourri. 

[Eddie Teach]

You take a bunch of Eastern Europeans who have just gotten out of extermination camps, put them in a new country where everybody around them wants to kill them, they're gonna have a less "civilized" perspective than somebody whose family immigrated to Brooklyn in the 20s. It's admirable that they have adopted modern values to the extent that they have.

[Tonitrus]

I agree with that.  I think that Arab on Arab conflict is like when one gangbanger kills another.  People rarely get outraged about that.  Israel vs Palestine is when a cop shoots a ganbanger in a situation that is not clearly justifiable.  Plenty of people will be all up in arms about policy brutality then, and some will blab on about how the cops are worse than any criminal.

Nah, Israel/Palestine is more like George ZimmermanT/Trayvon Martin.  The U.S. invading Iraq is like a cop shooting (as we are much more akin to the "world's policeman".  And Abu Ghraib was like the Abner Louima case.

Russia is like the cop fired for misconduct, but goes around intimidating his neighbors with his old badge and pooping on their lawn.

China is the shady rich guy who moved into your neighborhood and is trying to tell you what you have to do with your yard to keep from lowering his property values.

The EU, of course, is the hippie white neighbor who hates that Zimmerman guy.  He doesn't complain about Russia too much, because Russia is banging his wife and he feels too cuckolded to do anything about it.

[Viking]

Israel's not really a western nation though.

They certainly fall into the W.E.I.R.D. group of nations.

[Jacob]

Can you name any incidents of Yazidi terrorism?

I can not however that doesn't mean that they are any different and don't hate us like the rest them.
[/quote]

So you are basically relying on ignorant racism, then? You don't know anything about the Yazidi except that they're perhaps some kind of Arabs or something, and that's enough for you to conclude that they "hate us"?

[Razgovory]

Um this is not a gang fight.  These are ancient civilizations being massacred.  Women and children.  But hey those kids are a bunch of ghetto thugs who deserve it eh?  For um...being there in the way or something.  So much for "humanitarians".

and ghetto thugs are people, too, etc. the idea is perception. hamas are a bunch of illiterate backwater people, while israel is a western nation. there is a higher expectation on how israel acts than how hamas acts. i mean, why do you think so many people dislike israel? they're not all anti-semitic - that's an intellectually bankrupt argument.

I reject this completely.  They are human beings and should be judged the same as any other human beings.  I allow some leeway for different cultures, but this isn't about wearing an orange hat in public or a religious obligation to eat goat once a month, or not insulting them in the street.  The Palestinians aren't some ignorant child-peoples.  They can in fact read.  Their literacy rate is around 95%.  Israel already acts with more restraint then Hamas.  Hamas throws everything they have at Israel.  If Israel made the same effort they could depopulate Gaza in a few months.  Why do people dislike Israel?  True it's not all anti-semitism (but that's a major factor), other factors include European states wanting to get on the good side of about a billion Muslims rather then 10 million Israelis.  Another is that many in the West allow themselves to be manipulated by the Palestinians.  The Palestinians send kids with rocks to attack tanks and take pictures of the results.  They cynically put weapon caches near schools so that if when these are hit it kills children.  They know this tugs at the heart strings of Westerns.  They portray themselves as plucky innocents standing up against Israel and a lot of people buy it.

[Grey Fox]

Can you name any incidents of Yazidi terrorism?

I can not however that doesn't mean that they are any different and don't hate us like the rest them.

So you are basically relying on ignorant racism, then? You don't know anything about the Yazidi except that they're perhaps some kind of Arabs or something, and that's enough for you to conclude that they "hate us"?
[/quote]

Yes. It's a guilty until you prove otherwise situation so they won't get my simpathy, no. Not to say that we should not try to prevent their genocides.

We must not repeat the actions of Coward Dallaire in Rwanda.

[KRonn]

I'll be pretty pissed if we don't materially support the Kurds.  There's no reason to abandon them to this mess.

I definitely want us to help them as well.  Only problem is they're kind of hard to get to by land right now.  I suppose we could send them some stuff by air.

I agree on wanting to help the Kurds. It'll be a real let down, stab in the  back to them, if the US doesn't supply them with the heavier weapons and equipment they've been asking for. Right now apparently they have mainly light weapons against a better armed ISIS. It'll be tragic for the Kurds, a good US ally, to get slaughtered by ISIS and especially because the US doesn't aid them enough. They can defend themselves and have the desire to do so, but need the weapons and ammo. A big plus, obviously, is that the Kurds could be one force that'll stand up to ISIS and right now that is something that is desperately needed.

[CountDeMoney]

We must not repeat the actions of Coward Dallaire in Rwanda Europeans in Yugoslavia.