Negotiating With The Taliban.

[Berkut]

There's a bit difference between deserting and defecting. Though I think in the general discussion of him that's become blurred. What's the evidence he defected?

Circumstantial, I guess.  He would have to know that if he left his post he'd get captured.  Plus he really seemed to have developed a great deal of animosity for this US Army and the USA as a whole.

I really don't care if he deserted or not. We should still get him back either way.

[Sheilbh]

True dat.  Problem was he didn't promptly turn that shit off once his son was released.

What's he done?

Personally I quite like what I've read about him and like Viking I'm willing to cut a parent a lot of slack if they've lost a child or one's being held hostage.

I also think it must be hell that the routine advice from security consultants (and in this case the government) is that you do everything to stop the media from covering a situation like this, while for a parent you must just want to be doing everything you can to raise awareness and whatever else to get them home.

[Valmy]

I really don't care if he deserted or not. We should still get him back either way.

It was a political and military necessity.

[Viking]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

I don't think people joining the army look at Bowe Bergdahl and see themselves in it.

That isn't the point.

I think that is the point. The consequences of getting caught or killed are such that they basically out weigh any risk reward matrix unless their probability is negligible. If they are even considering joining getting captured and killed have been dismissed as possibilities or as something that happens to fruits like bergdahl.

The situation in israel is different, where they have conscription and mothers vote.

[Sheilbh]

I really don't care if he deserted or not. We should still get him back either way.

Agreed. And even if he did how would you decide who to abandon before you've held the trial? Could the conservative media perhaps set up some sort of panel to decide which dubious PoWs should be left to their eventual beheading and which should be traded for?

Though I do think defection's different. If he's now fighting for the other side (I think there was a case like that in the Korean war) then fuck him

[CountDeMoney]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

The tree of liberty, at times, must we watered with the blood of innocents.

If people die as a result of the greater good of making sure Obama doesn't get anything done, then that is a small sacrifice in the overall scheme of what is important for America.

At least President Cruz will be able to tell which servicemen in captivity  would deserve to come home, and which ones deserve to be willfully left behind, because then we'd have a real American in the White House.

[Berkut]

I really don't care if he deserted or not. We should still get him back either way.

Agreed. And even if he did how would you decide who to abandon before you've held the trial? Could the conservative media perhaps set up some sort of panel to decide which dubious PoWs should be left to their eventual beheading and which should be traded for?

Though I do think defection's different. If he's now fighting for the other side (I think there was a case like that in the Korean war) then fuck him

True enough, although even then I am almost even more interested in getting them back, simply so we can hang them ourselves.

[Viking]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

The tree of liberty, at times, must we watered with the blood of innocents.

If people die as a result of the greater good of making sure Obama doesn't get anything done, then that is a small sacrifice in the overall scheme of what is important for America.

At least President Cruz will be able to tell which servicemen in captivity  would deserve to come home, and which ones deserve to be willfully left behind, because then we'd have a real American in the White House.

He's like Mexican and Canadian at the same time. I don' think there is any combination as un-american as that.

[CountDeMoney]

At least President Cruz will be able to tell which servicemen in captivity  would deserve to come home, and which ones deserve to be willfully left behind, because then we'd have a real American in the White House.

He's like Mexican and Canadian at the same time. I don' think there is any combination as un-american as that.

. He's not black.  That's a winner in Dumbfuckistan.

[derspiess]

That's assuming he deserted though.

Well, we both think that is likely.

As I say there's evidence he'd left base alone and unauthorised at least three times before Given that why would he think that if he left his post he'd be captured?

From what I understand, the Taliban were thought to patrol just a few yards from their perimeter.   

Yeah. I think Valmy's right there's the psychological impact. As I've said given what I've read I don't think he sounds like the sort of guy who would do well in the army (home schooled in religious and philosophical classics, quite intense, looking for adventure and meaning but a bit of a loner by all accounts).

Almost seems like you & Valmy are making excuses for him.

[derspiess]

I really don't care if he deserted or not. We should still get him back either way.

Agree that we should put some effort into getting him back.  We probably disagree on how much effort he's worth if he deserted.

[Berkut]

I really don't care if he deserted or not. We should still get him back either way.

Agree that we should put some effort into getting him back.  We probably disagree on how much effort he's worth if he deserted.

You don't know if he deserted or not until you get him back though, at least you don't if you are the person making the decisions about how much effort to expend.

I don't think there should be any "rules" around such things - if someone is holding a US service member against their will, we should try to get them back regardless of what we suspect about crimes they may have committed prior to or in the act of his capture.

And I am 100% certain that if Obama was a Republican, you would agree.

[Sheilbh]

From what I understand, the Taliban were thought to patrol just a few yards from their perimeter.   

As I said, maybe they noticed there's a soldier who likes wandering from base? Or a local sympathiser did and passed it on?

Almost seems like you & Valmy are making excuses for him.

We don't know what happened. These are all factors and as relevant as the tone of his last e-mail to his parents - almost seems like you want to condemn him.

Agree that we should put some effort into getting him back.  We probably disagree on how much effort he's worth if he deserted.

But it's still not established that he deserted.

As I say how can we decide if someone's a deserter or not? Try him in absentia or just get Sean Hannity's view?

[Valmy]

Almost seems like you & Valmy are making excuses for him.

No.  I just don't pretend to judge deployed military people when I am sitting here on my ass.  What sort of asshole would I have to be to do that?  In any case we had to get that dude out regardless of how unhinged he may be.  You are the one making excuses to avoid reality on that point.  'But I heard from his squadmates' roomates' dogsitter that he was a deserter so we could leave him behind!'  Bullshit and you know it.

[derspiess]

You don't know if he deserted or not until you get him back though, at least you don't if you are the person making the decisions about how much effort to expend.

You can form a pretty good idea from evidence gathered by an investigation.

And I am 100% certain that if Obama was a Republican, you would agree.

Then we might as well end our conversation there.