Negotiating With The Taliban.

[derspiess]

I don't think it is. Public discourse doesn't need any level of certainty to express an opinion. That's never been an issue for public discourse. Which is generally fine. But that doesn't mean TV networks or politicians should be branding him a deserter.

The distinction between expressing an opinion and branding eludes me.

So the sources for his desertion are a note no-one can find, testimony that can't be substantiated, anonymous Taliban quotes and a suggestion that he'd gone native. That shouldn't be enough to fuck up this guy's homecoming.

No substantiation?  I've heard that numerous members of his platoon believe he was a deserter.

His emails to his parents also seem to strongly reflect the mindset of a deserter or defector.  Also, I'm puzzled by his father's reaction to them.  He was apparently pretty supportive.  Were it me, I'd be a bit freaked out by remarks like that & would try to contact Bowe's company commander to tell him he's probably not in the best mental state to be on the front line.

bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim

[Valmy]

His father was definitely pulling out all the stops to get him back.  Speaking directly to the Taliban in Pashtun?  Holy shit.

I am glad he got his son back if nothing else.

[Sheilbh]

His emails to his parents also seem to strongly reflect the mindset of a deserter or defector.  Also, I'm puzzled by his father's reaction to them.  He was apparently pretty supportive.  Were it me, I'd be a bit freaked out by remarks like that & would try to contact Bowe's company commander to tell him he's probably not in the best mental state to be on the front line.

There's a bit difference between deserting and defecting. Though I think in the general discussion of him that's become blurred. What's the evidence he defected?

I'd also say his last e-mail also reflects the mindset of someone who's struggling with the indiscipline of his platoon and his experience - remember the story he told his dad about running over an Afghan child. Which I think as well as basic parental love explains his dad's response, even had he wanted to warn someone in command his sons' e-mails were full of moans about the lack of discipline and shifts in command.

I agree on his mental state. As I've said I think there's real issues over whether he should ever have been allowed in the army - based on what I've read about him.

He could have deserted. On balance I'd say he probably did - though he could just have gone on one of his semi-regular walks away and got captured - but it's not clear. The best suggestions he deserted, like the note, haven't been found by the military or have been disputed by other of his comrades. But it's not enough to smear him as a deserter without a trial - just so you can beat on the President - when the real consequences of that are things like his parents receiving death threats, his town not being able to celebrate his return.

[Valmy]

But it's not enough to smear him as a deserter without a trial - just so you can beat on the President - when the real consequences of that are things like his parents receiving death threats, his town not being able to celebrate his return.

Parents receiving death threats?  Oh for fucksake.

[Sheilbh]

Parents receiving death threats?  Oh for fucksake.

Which is hardly shocking if you've got a lot of coverage saying 'he's a deserter' and blaming him for about every American death in the province. But it really annoys me when this sort of political air-war actually fucks with real, normal people.

[CountDeMoney]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

[derspiess]

There's a bit difference between deserting and defecting. Though I think in the general discussion of him that's become blurred. What's the evidence he defected?

Circumstantial, I guess.  He would have to know that if he left his post he'd get captured.  Plus he really seemed to have developed a great deal of animosity for this US Army and the USA as a whole.

[Valmy]

There's a bit difference between deserting and defecting. Though I think in the general discussion of him that's become blurred. What's the evidence he defected?

Circumstantial, I guess.  He would have to know that if he left his post he'd get captured.  Plus he really seemed to have developed a great deal of animosity for this US Army and the USA as a whole.

Psychological impact of war?  It does weird things to people.  Though there is nothing weird about developing animosity for the army while in the army.

[CountDeMoney]

Derfetus doubles as JAG investigator in the off-season.

[Viking]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

I don't think people joining the army look at Bowe Bergdahl and see themselves in it.

[derspiess]

His father was definitely pulling out all the stops to get him back.  Speaking directly to the Taliban in Pashtun?  Holy shit.

True dat.  Problem was he didn't promptly turn that shit off once his son was released.

[Berkut]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

The tree of liberty, at times, must we watered with the blood of innocents.

If people die as a result of the greater good of making sure Obama doesn't get anything done, then that is a small sacrifice in the overall scheme of what is important for America.

[Viking]

His father was definitely pulling out all the stops to get him back.  Speaking directly to the Taliban in Pashtun?  Holy shit.

True dat.  Problem was he didn't promptly turn that shit off once his son was released.

AFAIK his son has refused to talk to him since being traded. So to him his son still hasn't returned. I forgive Bergdahls dad and Cindy Sheehan for being nutty and crazy. They are parents, they get to do that and they get to feel that. That doesn't mean we need to take them seriously a onion holders on the issues related to their sons though.

[Sheilbh]

Circumstantial, I guess.  He would have to know that if he left his post he'd get captured.

That's assuming he deserted though. As I say there's evidence he'd left base alone and unauthorised at least three times before Given that why would he think that if he left his post he'd be captured?

Plus he really seemed to have developed a great deal of animosity for this US Army and the USA as a whole.

Yeah. I think Valmy's right there's the psychological impact. As I've said given what I've read I don't think he sounds like the sort of guy who would do well in the army (home schooled in religious and philosophical classics, quite intense, looking for adventure and meaning but a bit of a loner by all accounts).

To that I'd add that he was in a very ill-disciplined unit (they were filmed by a British journalists going on patrol in baseball caps instead of helmets; there were demotions and several changes of command at the base; one mission dragged on for hours because one of his comrades lost their gun) and from what I can gather he was profoundly affected by seeing an Afghan child run over.

[Berkut]

Ought to do wonders for armed services recruiting in the future.

I don't think people joining the army look at Bowe Bergdahl and see themselves in it.

That isn't the point.

There is a culture around US military personnel, and that culture includes the idea that we will and have gone to extraordinary lengths to get our POW/MIAs back. This is part and parcel with the mythology of the US military and how we feel about those who server.

The idea that we will go to great lengths to get you back, but not so much if one party thinks there is political hay to be made by slandering you in order to go after the President, does real, if somewhat intangible damage to that mythos, such that it is.

But no worries. Obama is worth it.