Napoleon and memory

[crazy canuck]

In Canada the commemoration of the war of 1812 turned out to be a top down effort by the government. 

Outside of Quebec the main contraversial event in Canada would likely be the Red River Rebellion and the execution of Louis Real but that will not come up for several decades iirc.

[Eddie Teach]

DeGaulle is the father of modern France for better or worse.  Old France was discredited in WWII and the Colonial debacles afterwards.  I think the French voted correctly there.

There wasn't a qualifier that it was "modern" French history. De Gaulle presided over a period of waning French power and had far less influence on world events than Napoleon or Louis XIV.

Maybe he's not as stupid a choice as Reagan, but it's still clearly a case of seriously overvaluing the present and recent past.

[Valmy]

There wasn't a qualifier that it was "modern" French history. De Gaulle presided over a period of waning French power and had far less influence on world events than Napoleon or Louis XIV.

Maybe he's not as stupid a choice as Reagan, but it's still clearly a case of seriously overvaluing the present and recent past.

The decline was already a done deal once DeGaulle took over, if anything he turned things around.  France as a great power died at Suez, if it was not already dead when the Germans crossed the Meuse.

The question was the most important man in French history.  I think a perfectly valid interpretation is which man had the largest impact on how France turned out today.  That man could certainly be DeGaulle.  Now which Frenchman had the largest impact on world history well then obviously DeGaulle would be a very poor choice.

[Sheilbh]

There wasn't a qualifier that it was "modern" French history. De Gaulle presided over a period of waning French power and had far less influence on world events than Napoleon or Louis XIV.

But that's just stripping all historical context out of it. Louis XIV had more influence because France was a world power, not because of he's Louis XIV.

De Gaulle's leadership came at a time (and partly in response to) France not being a world power. De Gaulle presided over a period of increasing French power and influence in relation to her immediate past and what is possible in the modern age.

It's like saying George Washington's a pathetic President because the US was at its most feeble during his Presidency and, by contrast, say Clinton or W Bush are the greatest. Or that Churchill was somehow less impressive than, say, Horace Walpole.

[grumbler]

The question was the most important man in French history.  I think a perfectly valid interpretation is which man had the largest impact on how France turned out today.  That man could certainly be DeGaulle.  Now which Frenchman had the largest impact on world history well then obviously DeGaulle would be a very poor choice.

That depends on how unique you think Napoleon was, and how important you consider modern Europe's transformation from a squabbling lot to a somewhat-unified power is. 

There are arguments on both sides, but I don't think the answer is as cut-and-dried as you imply.  Maybe I'm misreading your point, though.

[Norgy]

We just commemorated the constitution. It banned Jews, Jesuits and monks from entering the kingdom.

Charles de Gaulle would get my vote, despite not being a fan, solely for surviving all the assassination attempts and setting up the Fifth Republic. Essentially, more useful than invading Russia, I'd say.

[Razgovory]

DeGaule did a pretty good job guiding post war France.  I mean, it could have been much, much worse.  There was a risk of civil war or dictatorship.  And while DeGaule was fairly autocratic, he never became dictator of the country.  Lesser men certainly would have.

[CountDeMoney]

In 2010 an opinion poll in France asked who was the most important man in French history. Napoleon came second, behind General Charles de Gaulle, who led France from exile during the German occupation in World War II and served as a postwar president. 

Shockingly, the French public is as stupid as the American and British ones.

The Fifth Republic has kept the peace for over 50 years. I cannot, and will not, subscribe to your interpretations of this event.

[crazy canuck]

In 2010 an opinion poll in France asked who was the most important man in French history. Napoleon came second, behind General Charles de Gaulle, who led France from exile during the German occupation in World War II and served as a postwar president. 

Shockingly, the French public is as stupid as the American and British ones.

The Fifth Republic has kept the peace for over 50 years. I cannot, and will not, subscribe to your interpretations of this event.

What if the measure used is the politicians they elect?

[Valmy]

In 2010 an opinion poll in France asked who was the most important man in French history. Napoleon came second, behind General Charles de Gaulle, who led France from exile during the German occupation in World War II and served as a postwar president. 

Shockingly, the French public is as stupid as the American and British ones.

The Fifth Republic has kept the peace for over 50 years. I cannot, and will not, subscribe to your interpretations of this event.

What if the measure used is the politicians they elect?

They seem about par for the course.  Hollande seems pretty wretched granted.

[The Brain]

Hitler made Germany what it is today.

[Valmy]

Hitler made Germany what it is today.

Subservient to the Russian Slavs?  I guess that is true

[crazy canuck]

In 2010 an opinion poll in France asked who was the most important man in French history. Napoleon came second, behind General Charles de Gaulle, who led France from exile during the German occupation in World War II and served as a postwar president. 

Shockingly, the French public is as stupid as the American and British ones.

The Fifth Republic has kept the peace for over 50 years. I cannot, and will not, subscribe to your interpretations of this event.

What if the measure used is the politicians they elect?

They seem about par for the course.  Hollande seems pretty wretched granted.

By par for the course do you mean just as stupid as Americans and Brits?

[Valmy]

By par for the course do you mean just as stupid as Americans and Brits?

Sort of.  The regular sorts of people who get elected by democratic countries.

[The Minsky Moment]

An argument could be made that Napoleon had greater impact on the development of Germany or even Britain, than France.