National Popular Vote Interstate Compact Up To 165 EV

Started by jimmy olsen, April 23, 2014, 10:53:54 AM

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MadImmortalMan

#30
April 23, 2014, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2014, 01:08:26 PM
Have you read the article?  The problem isn't really the fact that a president can be elected with a minority vote, but rather that the few battleground states have a drastically disproportionate influence on the election.

That would happen even if this idea was implemented. It's just it would be California and Texas with disproportionate influence instead of Ohio and Florida.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

DGuller

#31
April 23, 2014, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2014, 01:08:26 PM
Have you read the article?  The problem isn't really the fact that a president can be elected with a minority vote, but rather that the few battleground states have a drastically disproportionate influence on the election.

That would happen even if this idea was implemented. It's just it would be California and Texas with disproportionate influence instead of Ohio and Florida.
The influence would be roughly proportional to population, and not more so.  This is certainly better than having all the influence go to the states that by luck of demographics happen to be evenly split on party allegiance.

Valmy

#32
April 23, 2014, 05:45:39 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:38:24 PM
That would happen even if this idea was implemented. It's just it would be California and Texas with disproportionate influence instead of Ohio and Florida.

I think it still depends on how many swing voters there are.  Most Texans and Californians are pretty set in their ways.  Ohio or New Mexico might still be the places to be.   Or not, Texas has pretty low turnout rates, this might inspire the political machines to get more of us out voting.  Right now we are a deep red state that does not influence much so nobody really cares.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Sheilbh

#33
April 23, 2014, 05:49:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2014, 05:45:39 PM
I think it still depends on how many swing voters there are.  Most Texans and Californians are pretty set in their ways.  Ohio or New Mexico might still be the places to be.   Or not, Texas has pretty low turnout rates, this might inspire the political machines to get more of us out voting.  Right now we are a deep red state that does not influence much so nobody really cares.
If it's based on national popular vote then it'd probably just lead to a more extreme version of the current system. I imagine you'd spend your time, especially as a state government, trying to depress the turnout of the other side as much as possible and you'd saturate with negative advertising (which I think I read turn off swing voters) and rally the base.
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

#34
April 23, 2014, 05:50:55 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2014, 05:49:54 PM
If it's based on national popular vote then it'd probably just lead to a more extreme version of the current system. I imagine you'd spend your time, especially as a state government, trying to depress the turnout of the other side as much as possible and you'd saturate with negative advertising (which I think I read turn off swing voters) and rally the base.

I have a hard time imagining them spending more time doing that.  That might not be physically possible.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

MadImmortalMan

#35
April 23, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
The thing about the EC/battleground status quo is that it forces politicians to appeal to the center. If we go full-on popular vote they will all bolt for the fringes and we'll get even more polarized than we already are.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

garbon

#36
April 23, 2014, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2014, 05:45:39 PM
Most Texans and Californians are pretty set in their ways.

Are they?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

#37
April 23, 2014, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
The thing about the EC/battleground status quo is that it forces politicians to appeal to the center. If we go full-on popular vote they will all bolt for the fringes and we'll get even more polarized than we already are.

Why?  The fringes already show up and always vote the same way.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

DGuller

#38
April 23, 2014, 05:54:51 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
The thing about the EC/battleground status quo is that it forces politicians to appeal to the center. If we go full-on popular vote they will all bolt for the fringes and we'll get even more polarized than we already are.
I don't see how that follows.

Sheilbh

#39
April 23, 2014, 05:55:00 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
The thing about the EC/battleground status quo is that it forces politicians to appeal to the center. If we go full-on popular vote they will all bolt for the fringes and we'll get even more polarized than we already are.
Exactly. You could, naively, believe that this would lead to a great battle for every vote and Republicans campaigning in New York. But I think it would exacerbate existing trends in American politics and lead to even more polarisation.

QuoteThe jurisdictions that have approved N.P.V. so far come in all sizes. Four are small (Rhode Island, Vermont, and Hawaii, plus the District of Columbia), three are medium-sized (Maryland, Washington, and Massachusetts), and four are large (New Jersey, Illinois, California, and now New York).
All sizes but one party, which just so happens to be the last one to have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college.
Let's bomb Russia!

MadImmortalMan

#40
April 23, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2014, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
The thing about the EC/battleground status quo is that it forces politicians to appeal to the center. If we go full-on popular vote they will all bolt for the fringes and we'll get even more polarized than we already are.

Why?  The fringes already show up and always vote the same way.

Because elections will be more about getting your own base fired up than appealing to others.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Valmy

#41
April 23, 2014, 05:55:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2014, 05:45:39 PM
Most Texans and Californians are pretty set in their ways.

Are they?

In Cali it seems you are either out in the interior somewhere voting Republican or on the coast where you vote Democrat.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#42
April 23, 2014, 05:58:19 PM Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 06:00:40 PM by Valmy
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2014, 05:55:00 PM
All sizes but one party, which just so happens to be the last one to have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college.

Yes however the electoral college math is totally on their side now.  The last election was a massacre by EC but rather close if we just go by popular vote.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#43
April 23, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Because elections will be more about getting your own base fired up than appealing to others.

Then the Democrats will always win since their base is a bit bigger and it seems nobody else is ever going to vote.  Ah well that seemed to be where we were going with the EC anyway.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

DGuller

#44
April 23, 2014, 06:00:42 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2014, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2014, 05:51:31 PM
The thing about the EC/battleground status quo is that it forces politicians to appeal to the center. If we go full-on popular vote they will all bolt for the fringes and we'll get even more polarized than we already are.

Why?  The fringes already show up and always vote the same way.

Because elections will be more about getting your own base fired up than appealing to others.
I still don't see how that follows.  You just restated exactly the same thing you said earlier.
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