Asian educational achievement

[Jacob]

I find American and European fascination with Asian educational models puzzling. It's like they've never met anyone who's gone through an Asian education system.

[dps]

Funny.  We in HK marvel at western educational achievement.  It is quite obvious to us that western students are happy, confident, outgoing, and willing and able to think outside the box. 

Well, yeah, because we don't have an educational system that stresses rote learning and turns us into downbeaten, fatalistic drones, nor do employers here (in general) give a shit how you did in school.  OTOH, our educational system produces college graduates who can't figure your change when they have to settle for a job running a register at McDonalds.

[Monoriu]

Funny.  We in HK marvel at western educational achievement.  It is quite obvious to us that western students are happy, confident, outgoing, and willing and able to think outside the box. 

Well, yeah, because we don't have an educational system that stresses rote learning and turns us into downbeaten, fatalistic drones, nor do employers here (in general) give a shit how you did in school.  OTOH, our educational system produces college graduates who can't figure your change when they have to settle for a job running a register at McDonalds.

I think the rote learning, faltalistic drones part is a side effect, not the goal of the East Asian education system.  The real goal of the system is selection of the best in a way that gives everybody a fair chance.  Even the sons and daughters of the poorest have a shot at joining the office worker class as long as they did well in the anonymous, centralised exams.  They may not have the connections, may not have the money for the extra-curriculars, but any kid can memorise stuff.  This is important for social cohesion.  You maybe poor, but as long as your kid can cram more facts into his head than some rich kid, he can be a doctor or a lawyer someday.  As long as he scored top grades, nobody will care about the fact that his parents are janitors. 

[MadImmortalMan]

Yeah you guys do that while tutoring the hell out of your kids at home to make up for it. Our method is to quickly spot any trace of potential and promise in the children and then do everything we can to squash it before it becomes threatening to the others. 

[Monoriu]

Yeah you guys do that while tutoring the hell out of your kids at home to make up for it. Our method is to quickly spot any trace of potential and promise in the children and then do everything we can to squash it before it becomes threatening to the others. 

The tutoring is not done at home.  It is done at tutoring workshops.  The real purpose of many of those workshops isn't tutoring.  It is to keep an eye on the kids while their parents toil in the offices until midnights. 

[Admiral Yi]

It's done at cram schools that janitors often can't afford.  At least that's the complaint voiced in Korea.

[Monoriu]

It's done at cram schools that janitors often can't afford.  At least that's the complaint voiced in Korea.

Same complaint in HK.  But no one says you *must* have cram schools to tick the right boxes at the exams.  Rich kids will always have an advantage.  But if they are smart, the poor kids can tick the right boxes as well.

[CountDeMoney]

[alfred russel]

I think the rote learning, faltalistic drones part is a side effect, not the goal of the East Asian education system.  The real goal of the system is selection of the best in a way that gives everybody a fair chance.  Even the sons and daughters of the poorest have a shot at joining the office worker class as long as they did well in the anonymous, centralised exams.  They may not have the connections, may not have the money for the extra-curriculars, but any kid can memorise stuff.  This is important for social cohesion.  You maybe poor, but as long as your kid can cram more facts into his head than some rich kid, he can be a doctor or a lawyer someday.  As long as he scored top grades, nobody will care about the fact that his parents are janitors.

I think I sort of went through the Asian educational model. When I first started school, I tested out as not very bright (there were three grouped dvisions--the advanced, the normal, and a special group of very slow kids. I was in the special group).

Up through middle school I had to do a bunch of math problems (usually 400 basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division problems) and read for 2 hours every day. My father would pick the reading material and quiz me on it. At points I also had a tutor. By the time I was in the 8th grade, I was testing out in the 99th percentile of a bunch of subjects and my math tutor was talking to my father about starting to teach me calculus. That is when he pulled the plug on making me do a bunch of crap every day.

My test scores after that point were always really good and I was a National Merit Scholar. I leave it to your judgment how well adjusted I turned out.

[Capetan Mihali]

Is that where you drew inspiration for your AR stories about hiring a tutor for your daughters?

[alfred russel]

Is that where you drew inspiration for your AR stories about hiring a tutor for your daughters?

I think AR only had one daughter, and I don't remember a tutor. My lack of memory is why I very rarely posted much about my fake family. 

[Josquius]

Not really news in Asia.
The Korean government a year or two ago moved to crack down on the Korean version of jukus as kids were staying there late (post-midnight) and sleeping during school as a result.
It was pretty common when I worked in a high school to hear of kids studying into the wee hours and falling asleep in class as a result.

Asian education is not something to be imitated. It amplifies all the worst aspects of education in the UK. Worrying about doing better at exams is completely getting the wrong end of the problem, educaton being entirely about exams is the problem.

[jimmy olsen]

Not really news in Asia.
The Korean government a year or two ago moved to crack down on the Korean version of jukus as kids were staying there late (post-midnight) and sleeping during school as a result.
It was pretty common when I worked in a high school to hear of kids studying into the wee hours and falling asleep in class as a result.

There are after school classes at my high school that a majority of the students attend that go until 10pm.

[Josquius]

It's done at cram schools that janitors often can't afford.  At least that's the complaint voiced in Korea.

I find this kind of interesting. In the 20th century the idea developed of "Any one can be succesful if they are bright and do well at exams!". Which...does kind of work in theory until this fact fully sinks in and everyone realises they have to game the system.
Traditionally in China and particularly Korea they had much the same idea in the shape of the confucian examination system. Anybody could take the exam and get a cushy job in the civil service if they passed...but in practice it was setup so that pretty much only people from wealthy families who could afford the extensive preperation could pass.
The world is becoming neo-confucianist

[CountDeMoney]

The world is becoming neo-confucianist

No, it's just that some of the world has never gotten Confucianism out of its system.