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Asian educational achievement

Started by MadImmortalMan, February 21, 2014, 02:27:25 PM

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MadImmortalMan

February 21, 2014, 02:27:25 PM
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Chalk Talk: Impressive results in the Far East - a 'shadow' over plans to improve our schools?


The vogue is to marvel at the achievements of Far Eastern education systems such as South Korea, Japan and Shanghai in China. After all, they performed far better than us in the international Pisa (Programme for International Student Assessment) tests in literacy and numeracy so we should be able to learn something from them.

Perhaps, though, a note of caution should be sounded before our education leaders stampede to the airports. A blog posted by a Japan-based educationalist on the website of Schools Improvement Net, dedicated to sharing ideas about improving school standards, gives another explanation.

It seems, according to education writer, Manabu Watanbe, that the impressive results in the Far East may not be down to the performance of schools.

He cites research which shows that in China 73.8 per cent of primary school students received "shadow education", ie, supplementary schools or private tutors. A similar picture emerges in Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea.

Watanbe argues that shadow education is best developed in Japan where about 50,000 "juku" companies have set up, offering distance learning to pupils out of school.

Step off the plane, then. Go to Finland, another high performer, instead?

***

The vagaries of testing very young children emerged at a conference last week about the Government's new curriculum for primary schools. It is very likely children will undergo "baseline assessment" – testing when they start school so their progress can be measured at the national curriculum tests at 11.

According to Jan Dubiel, from Early Excellence and one of the guest speakers at the conference: "If it is very young children [who are tested], you're not going to get meaningful data." The conference, organised by Westminster Education Forum, was told of one group of children who, when tested on a Monday, were considered "gifted and talented" but, by Friday, registered as "special needs". The answer seems obvious: test them on a Wednesday...

What a mystery...
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Valmy

#1
February 21, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
Asian high achievement in the US also seems to wear off after a few generations like most immigrant qualities.

Anyway kids in the US today are already way overscheduled I cannot imagine also putting my kids in another supplementary school.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

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The Brain

#2
February 21, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
Asian high achievement in the US also seems to wear off after a few generations like most immigrant qualities.


After a few generations in the US they are probably American, not Asian. :hmm:
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Valmy

#3
February 21, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 21, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
Asian high achievement in the US also seems to wear off after a few generations like most immigrant qualities.


After a few generations in the US they are probably American, not Asian. :hmm:

Yes, that is what I was saying.  The become fat anti-intellectual slobs like the rest of us and stop giving their kids supplementary schooling.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Admiral Yi

#4
February 21, 2014, 02:37:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
Asian high achievement in the US also seems to wear off after a few generations like most immigrant qualities.

Article in the NYT said high achieving ethnic groups lose their advantage in the 3rd generation.

Also of note was the fact that Nigerians are high achievers in the US.

QuoteAnyway kids in the US today are already way overscheduled I cannot imagine also putting my kids in another supplementary school.

Cut the extracurriculars.

The Brain

#5
February 21, 2014, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 21, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
Asian high achievement in the US also seems to wear off after a few generations like most immigrant qualities.


After a few generations in the US they are probably American, not Asian. :hmm:

Yes, that is what I was saying.  The become fat anti-intellectual slobs like the rest of us.

So how was your comment relevant? Rhetorical.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Valmy

#6
February 21, 2014, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 21, 2014, 02:38:06 PM
So how was your comment relevant? Rhetorical.

That the advantage was based on a culture where you supplement your kids education with other sources.  Once they are over here and out of that culture awhile they stop doing that.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

MadImmortalMan

#7
February 21, 2014, 02:41:12 PM
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Capetan Mihali

#8
February 21, 2014, 02:41:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 21, 2014, 02:38:06 PM
So how was your comment relevant? Rhetorical.

'Murricans want it both ways.  What's good for the Dane isn't good for the gander.
"The internet's completely over. [...] The internet's like MTV. At one time MTV was hip and suddenly it became outdated. Anyway, all these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
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derspiess

#9
February 21, 2014, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 21, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
Asian high achievement in the US also seems to wear off after a few generations like most immigrant qualities.


After a few generations in the US they are probably American, not Asian. :hmm:

Yes, that is what I was saying.  The become fat anti-intellectual slobs like the rest of us and stop giving their kids supplementary schooling.

Does that really happen?

Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2014, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 21, 2014, 02:38:06 PM
So how was your comment relevant? Rhetorical.

That the advantage was based on a culture where you supplement your kids education with other sources.  Once they are over here and out of that culture awhile they stop doing that.

Seems like they still score pretty high on IQ tests.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#10
February 21, 2014, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2014, 03:09:09 PM
Does that really happen?

Well it does according to two people who have been making waves on the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/opinion/sunday/what-drives-success.html?_r=0

But I do not have access to any significant data on the subject...well except all the confidential data on tens of thousands of current and former students of UT Austin.  But it might take me awhile to parse that.

QuoteSeems like they still score pretty high on IQ tests.

IQ tests are racist biased tests that favor Asian people everybody knows that man.  But seriously I have no idea, I have never seen a breakdown on race PLUS generational information.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

jimmy olsen

#11
February 21, 2014, 04:07:03 PM
It's really only effective at teaching math and scientific formula that can be memorized. Korean education is pitiful at teaching students how to think creatively and solve problems.
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derspiess

#12
February 21, 2014, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 21, 2014, 04:07:03 PM
It's really only effective at teaching math and scientific formula that can be memorized. Korean education is pitiful at teaching students how to think creatively and solve problems.

I bet they score way below Amerikuh when it comes to self-esteem as well.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#13
February 21, 2014, 04:14:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2014, 04:14:15 PM
I bet they score way below Amerikuh when it comes to self-esteem as well.

Unjustified arrogance is a keystone of American success.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Monoriu

#14
February 21, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Funny.  We in HK marvel at western educational achievement.  It is quite obvious to us that western students are happy, confident, outgoing, and willing and able to think outside the box. 
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