Siege (plus other 3.5 million Sephardi) gets ready to claim Spanish citizenship

[Legbiter]

So languish is full of crypto-Jews? 

[Admiral Yi]

Iorm: are your two maps using the same codes?

[Ideologue]

GC: That's pretty cool.  I'll have to look some more into it.

Something I forgot to say is "Why would anyone in their right mind want to emigrate to Spain?"

[garbon]

Something I forgot to say is "Why would anyone in their right mind want to emigrate to Spain?"

I was trying to speak to that.

Some of those surnames are very common.

My wife's maiden name is on that list.  OMG SHE'S JEWISH. 

Not that there's anything wrong with that

Then she can claim Spanish citizenship, and then both you and your kids could have it as well. Welcome to Spain. 

I think you mean welcome to the EU.

[Ideologue]

That would sweeten the deal a little.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm not sure that there's a consensus on that, but as far as I know the prevailing theory is that Europeans are mostly descended from groups of Near Easterners who colonized Europe after they discovered agriculture. Indo-Europeans were a linguistic group that developed new horse-riding technology that let them spread their language the same way that the Turks and Germanic tribes did -- by establishing themselves as a ruling class rather than replacing the majority population (and in the case of the British Isles by indirect means, given that there's no archaeological evidence of a Celtic invasion).

Neolithic agricultural techology allowed for much higher levels of population density.  Once you have neolithic level populations in a place, they are very hard to displace without very concerted efforts at total extermination, which are quite rare historically.  So it is not surprising that modern genetic analysis tends to show that most Europeans can trace descent from whatever substrate existed in the neolithic era, with some additional elements reflecting siginificant historical migratory episodes (e.g. some Scandinavian in various parts of the British Isles).

As for how I-E languages got spread, it really is a lot of speculation given how long ago it happened, the wide geographics spread, and the reliance on speculative constucts like proto-languages.  It is certainlty quite possible that elite replacement is part of the story.  But elite replacement isn't necessarily an obvious driver of linguistic change - the Norman conquest is a classic example of near total displacement of a ruling class and yet the English language survived.  As opposed to the earlier Anglo-Saxon movements which probably did not involve a complete political deplacement and yet did ultimately result in linguistic change in core areas of Britain.  In thinking about I-E it could be that migratory groups that spoke those languages exerted a cultural attraction that went beyond simple political domination.  For example, imgaine you are a young man (or woman) in a small farming village looking forward to a very circumscribed life of labor in the fields.  All of a sudden these ancient cowboy types show up with their horses and cattle and strange stories from other places.  It isn't hard to imgaine the "best and brightest" of indigenes being drawn to the new cultural system, including the new language as a badge of differentiation.  Of course this is all total speculation.  We really don't know for sure how it happened.

[Razgovory]

So languish is full of crypto-Jews? 

Possibly.

[Iormlund]

Unless the Basques are also Celtiberians, R1b3 isn't a Celtiberian gene, it's a gene that's common where the Celtiberian culture existed.

The point was that newcomers seem to have had a relatively limited impact on genetic composition despite all the visits and invasions in the last couple millenia.

Though the relationship between Basques, Iberians and Celtiberians is a very interesting (and murky) topic in itself.

Iorm: are your two maps using the same codes?

No.

[dps]

That would be difficult, because first you'd have to establish a genetic baseline for those ethnic categories. For instance, given that Celtic culture was evidently transmitted to the British Isles indirectly by trade and cultural contact rather than by colonization, the French would be more genetically 'Celtic' --insofar as they're descended from the first Celtic-speakers-- than the Irish.

No shit?  I didn't know that.  Then what were aboriginal Britons and aboriginal Irish?  A completely separate linguistic/ethnic group from Celts and Germans?

The Picts up in Scotland spoke a non-IndoEuropean language.  I think the assumption is that at one time they were the main population group throughout the British Isles, but AFAIK that's mostly speculation.  And while linguistically they were quite distinct from Celts and Germans, I'm not sure about how distinct they were ethnically.

[The Minsky Moment]

The guy that wrote the Bloodof the Isles book claimed little ethnic/genetic difference between "Picts" and "celts". Don't know anything about linguistic differences - what would be the evidence for that anyways?  Presumably not texts.

[Razgovory]

The guy that wrote the Bloodof the Isles book claimed little ethnic/genetic difference between "Picts" and "celts". Don't know anything about linguistic differences - what would be the evidence for that anyways?  Presumably not texts.

The only way I could think of is recorded proper names either for places or people.  In this regard they don't seem to be different then their neighbors.  Of course that's hardly definitive.

[Iormlund]

Ide IIRC the original Britons would probably be the descendants of those humans who survived the last glaciation period around the Pyrenees, and thus closely related to Iberians. This can be still seen today in the prevalence of r1b (bright red in the map I pasted) in Spain, Ireland and Wales.

In the case of Spain we do know that Iberians/Basques spoke a different language than the arriving Celts - we have Iberian texts, Roman testimony and of course Basque still exists.

[Admiral Yi]

No.

Would you happen to know what the big cream colored wedge of Ibiza's pie represents?

[Siege]

Why would I want the citizenship of a country that chased off my forefathers?

Besides, despite one third of Spaniards being descendant from Sefarad, they are all a bunch of anti-semites, Palestinian-lovers, racists pricks.


Os podeis quedar con vuestra pocilga.

[Siege]

* looks at his watch*

Friggin Spaniards didn't bite my bait?

Disappointing.