Senator threatens NFL's tax-exempt status over the Redskins name

[Valmy]

I think it is a mistake, as I see you doing, to just go oh well it was a different time. I don't see why we would assume that people who did bigoted things simply did it because they were unaware that they were actually being bigoted. Seems to be a convenient whitewashing of prejudice and enmity.

Nonsense. It is far more convenient to just say 'look how evil those ignorant people in the past were. We would never do anything like that since we are so much better'. Besides they are not around to defend themselves and you cannot teach lessons to the dead. Ire is better used to those still committing abuses today.

[alfred russel]

Both Baptists and Methodists are Christians so I am not sure you understand the difference between being a Sikh and a Hindu.  A Sikh being called a Hindu is more like a Christian being called a Jew or a Muslim being called either a Jew or a Christian.

That technicality aside, you are missing the intent of the slur.  It was meant as an insult.  To single them out as being the other.

If intent is a critical factor, then the Washington Redskins team name is almost certainly not a slur.

I don't think a Christian being called a Jew is a slur. Even if meant as an insult, it is just stupid.

[garbon]

Nonsense. It is far more convenient to just say 'look how evil those ignorant people in the past were. We would never do anything like that since we are so much better'.

Of course, no one is saying that. Still if it helps you to imagine that racist people were only racist by accident of the times they were born in, shine on.

Besides they are not around to defend themselves and you cannot teach lessons to the dead. Ire is better used to those still committing abuses today.

Yes, no one in the past who espoused racist, sexist, and/or homophobic views is still around.

[crazy canuck]

Both Baptists and Methodists are Christians so I am not sure you understand the difference between being a Sikh and a Hindu.  A Sikh being called a Hindu is more like a Christian being called a Jew or a Muslim being called either a Jew or a Christian.

That technicality aside, you are missing the intent of the slur.  It was meant as an insult.  To single them out as being the other.

If intent is a critical factor, then the Washington Redskins team name is almost certainly not a slur.

I don't think a Christian being called a Jew is a slur. Even if meant as an insult, it is just stupid.

Intent isn't the only thing that creates the slur.  Being called a Hindu could be entirely accurate if one was speaking to someone of the Hindu faith.  In that case intent would be the only thing that mattered since calling someone a Hindu is not, itself, problematic.

Calling a team the Red Skins is, itself, problematic because it is offensive even if there is no intent to be offensive.  But as Berkut pointed out, I think correctly, the owners at the time didn't care what native americans might think about the name.  That is hardly a good justification   

[crazy canuck]

Yes, no one in the past who espoused racist, sexist, and/or homophobic views is still around.

I think that a lot of straight males around my age (including myself) have been guilty of using homophobic slurs.  When I used them I intended to use them in a manner that had a negative rather than a neutral connotation.  I and many others have reformed our behavior.  But I wont take the easy out of saying everyone else did it.  It was wrong and I feel shame for having done it.

[Valmy]

Yes, no one in the past who espoused racist, sexist, and/or homophobic views is still around.

If they are then their present views are more of a consideration than their old ones. If somebody was racist in 1960 that is one thing. If somebody still is well that's something else.

Of course, no one is saying that.

People talk like that all the time. In fact they have talked like that in this thread.

Still if it helps you to imagine that racist people were only racist by accident of the times they were born in, shine on.

Helps me to understand what factors led to them having those views so as to better understand history rather than just label them as bad? Yes. Because issuing value judgement in that context is not particularly useful. The racism was bad. The people? Well maybe. But I presume that there but by the grace of God go I.

[Valmy]

I think that a lot of straight males around my age (including myself) have been guilty of using homophobic slurs.  When I used them I intended to use them in a manner that had a negative rather than a neutral connotation.  I and many others have reformed our behavior.  But I wont take the easy out of saying everyone else did it.  It was wrong and I feel shame for having done it.

But were you a person who did not give a shit? Might understanding why you did something wrong despite having the best of intentions inform your understanding of human nature rather than just demonizing yourself? How is doing that the easy way out? I do not think that is the easy way out at all. I think that is how one gains wisdom.

[crazy canuck]

I think that a lot of straight males around my age (including myself) have been guilty of using homophobic slurs.  When I used them I intended to use them in a manner that had a negative rather than a neutral connotation.  I and many others have reformed our behavior.  But I wont take the easy out of saying everyone else did it.  It was wrong and I feel shame for having done it.

But were you a person who did not give a shit? Might understanding why you did something wrong despite having the best of intentions inform your understanding of human nature rather than just demonizing yourself? How is doing that the easy way out? I do not think that is the easy way out at all. I think that is how one gains wisdom.

I think it is the easy way out to claim that what I did was not morally and ethically wrong because everyone else was doing it.  One gains wisdom by acknowledging and learning from the mistakes of the past.  Not by minimizing them.  Put another way, if everyone was still using homophobic slurs would I be less culpable if I continued to use them?

[garbon]

I think that a lot of straight males around my age (including myself) have been guilty of using homophobic slurs.  When I used them I intended to use them in a manner that had a negative rather than a neutral connotation.  I and many others have reformed our behavior.  But I wont take the easy out of saying everyone else did it.  It was wrong and I feel shame for having done it.

But were you a person who did not give a shit? Might understanding why you did something wrong despite having the best of intentions inform your understanding of human nature rather than just demonizing yourself? How is doing that the easy way out? I do not think that is the easy way out at all. I think that is how one gains wisdom.

I think it is the easy way out to claim that what I did was not morally and ethically wrong because everyone else was doing it.  One gains wisdom by acknowledging and learning from the mistakes of the past.  Not by minimizing them.  Put another way, if everyone was still using homophobic slurs would I be less culpable if I continued to use them?

[MadImmortalMan]

So what would be a good new name for the team? Are there any candidates?

[Malthus]

So what would be a good new name for the team? Are there any candidates?

"The Battling Yids"? 

[alfred russel]

So what would be a good new name for the team? Are there any candidates?

"White Men". The team could donate to white causes, have fans come to the game in white people attire (conveniently most of the fan base already does this, except for those in indian costumes or dressed as pigs), and the team song could be "Hail to the White Man".

[Tonitrus]

I wonder if they'd be able to get away with keeping the logo, and changing the name back to the Braves.

Might have been able to pull that off right at the start of the controversy, but seems like it'd be harder to use any Native American-related name the longer it drags on.

[Razgovory]

So what would be a good new name for the team? Are there any candidates?

"White Men". The team could donate to white causes, have fans come to the game in white people attire (conveniently most of the fan base already does this, except for those in indian costumes or dressed as pigs), and the team song could be "Hail to the White Man".

[dps]

Both Baptists and Methodists are Christians so I am not sure you understand the difference between being a Sikh and a Hindu.  A Sikh being called a Hindu is more like a Christian being called a Jew or a Muslim being called either a Jew or a Christian.

That technicality aside, you are missing the intent of the slur.  It was meant as an insult.  To single them out as being the other.

If intent is a critical factor, then the Washington Redskins team name is almost certainly not a slur.

I don't think a Christian being called a Jew is a slur. Even if meant as an insult, it is just stupid.

Intent isn't the only thing that creates the slur.  Being called a Hindu could be entirely accurate if one was speaking to someone of the Hindu faith.  In that case intent would be the only thing that mattered since calling someone a Hindu is not, itself, problematic.

That was kind of my point, though.   I'd never heard of "Hindu" being used as an insult before, so I'm still not clear on why someone would call someone else a Hindu with intent to insult them.  Then again, I don't really know anything about anti-Sikh prejudice.  I thought that hostility toward Sikhs (at least in the West) was due to people who have a problem with Moslems mistaking them for Moslems, so I don't even see where calling them Hindus comes into play at all.