Sochi 2014 Winter Olympics

[DGuller]

Here's the thing.  The arbitrary handful of visible characteristics that make up "race" are not really useful for determining anything else about a person.  Racism, as I was taught, is the belief that these characteristic are useful for anything other than as a descriptor.

Yeah that is usually my response to the racists and their constant use of stats.  'Blacks dominate the NBA therefore racism is right' or whatever.  Um for every non-black dude in the NBA there are thousands of black dudes who they beat out for that spot.  Even in that rather extreme example it is not really useful in dealing with individuals which is why racism is wrong.

I hope your non-usual response is far less nonsensical.

[Ed Anger]

You fucking fucks, this is Olympics thread, not genetics and race discussion FFS!!!

The Olympics 1936 thread.

You and your Hitler fetish!

The reich stuff.

[Maximus]

Here's the thing:  this is a convenient untruth.  By that logic, the medical researchers who say that African Americans are much more likely to have hypertension are racists.

No.

But if it did mean that, so what?

[DGuller]

Here's the thing:  this is a convenient untruth.  By that logic, the medical researchers who say that African Americans are much more likely to have hypertension are racists.

No.

Yes, by your definition.  Blood pressure is typically not an "arbitrary handful of visible characteristics that make up "race"", and yet the medical researchers are under impression that there is a connection between that arbitrary handful of visible characteristics and blood pressure.

But if it did mean that, so what?

The word "racist" is obviously very negative, and the implication is that if you do something that gets you called "racist", you did a very bad and undesirable thing.

[lustindarkness]

You fuckers are are good at making a kinda boring thread into a really boring one.

[crazy canuck]

What else would racial differences possibly be?

If you took the time to read the article I posted, it is that very notion that is problematic.

Genetic mutation comes about because a wide number of factors - race is a problematic construct at best.

I read the article.  I was just saying if hypothetically there were racial differences what else could possibly be their origins than genetic mutations?

Then article seemed to confirm exactly what I was saying as well, that races are all mixing together making these differences, if any, not worth much in the long run.

Then you send yourself in circles trying to define what race is - which is precisely the point the article makes.  The article does not say it is now not worth trying to identify race - the point is it was never worth trying to do so.

[derspiess]

So Maximus thinks Valmy & DG are racists?

[crazy canuck]

You fucking fucks, this is Olympics thread, not genetics and race discussion FFS!!!

Slow day at the Olympics.  tomorrow should be better.

[katmai]

So Maximus thinks Valmy & DG are racists?

DG is russian so clearly he is racist.

[Valmy]

I hope your non-usual response is far less nonsensical.

I think it is perfectly sensical.  If race does not really tell you something definitive about a person than judging individuals based on their race is wrong.

[Valmy]

Then you send yourself in circles trying to define what race is - which is precisely the point the article makes.  The article does not say it is now not worth trying to identify race - the point is it was never worth trying to do so.

I am not sure this article is as completely convincing and authoritative as you think it is.  I thought they were saying that even in cases when there are trends based on certain genetic issues it gets mixed up because appearances and self-identification are not even that useful in determining somebody's genetic ancestry.

[DGuller]

I hope your non-usual response is far less nonsensical.

I think it is perfectly sensical.  If race does not really tell you something definitive about a person than judging individuals based on their race is wrong.

From the statistical point of view, it's not sensical at all, and since you entered this argument as a rebuttal to statistics, you'll have to play by the statistical rules.  In statistics, there is a concept called variance.  Without it, there would be no such field, it would just be arithmetic.  Therefore, if your rebuttal to the inferences drawn from statistics is based on the damning existence of that thing called variance, then your rebuttal is devoid of validity.

Acting on inferences drawn from knowing someone's race is generally wrong (except in things like medicine, where it can save lives of the very people being profiled).  However, it's not wrong because it's illogical, and that's where well-meaning liberals get it horribly wrong.  It's wrong because it's immoral, and it's wrong because acting on such inferences will perpetuate them.

[Maximus]

Yes, by your definition.  Blood pressure is typically not an "arbitrary handful of visible characteristics that make up "race"", and yet the medical researchers are under impression that there is a connection between that arbitrary handful of visible characteristics and blood pressure.

"African American" is a specific set of people, not a set of characteristics.

The word "racist" is obviously very negative, and the implication is that if you do something that gets you called "racist", you did a very bad and undesirable thing.

I am aware that people tend to use the term "racism" to refer to anything bad that involves race. That does not make it correct usage however.

[merithyn]

Yes, by your definition.  Blood pressure is typically not an "arbitrary handful of visible characteristics that make up "race"", and yet the medical researchers are under impression that there is a connection between that arbitrary handful of visible characteristics and blood pressure.

Just wanted to point this out, but most studies now show that it's not "race" that contributes to the risk of high blood pressure in African-Americans, but rather the culture. Basically, black Americans (black men, in particular) may have a tendency toward high blood pressure not because of their race but because they don't take care of themselves when they do get it. It's a social issue, much like race is a social construct that only really came about in the last 300 years.

But to bring it back around to the Olympics, go USA! go USA!

[garbon]

I'm still confused how all of this came about from me saying 50s ain't shirtless weather.