Chris Christie's Bullying, Revisited

[Valmy]

Communists & communist sympathizers were much more likely to spy for the Soviets.

I am saying that is not good enough to prove somebody is a security risk.  Not the least since proving somebody is a Communist or a Communist Sympathizer is pretty damn hard especially without current party membership, in that case you have to guess what their thoughts are and then make decisions based on those thoughts they might be having.  Much easier, and more Constitutional, to not waste time doing that and look for evidence of espionage or something they are actively doing that would compromise national security.

[Ed Anger]

Roy Cohn is also awesome.

[derspiess]

It's all about Risk Management.  Communists were risky people to put in important positions.

No further questions.

It is clear that derspiess advocates suspending the Constitutional rights of people he dislikes. As such, it is fair to consider him Anti-American.

What constitutional rights? 

[Malthus]

I wasted a good Cicero reference on this crowd. Goddamn hippies.

Well, we could always pierce your tounge with a hairpin if it would make you happy ... 

[derspiess]

I am saying that is not good enough to prove somebody is a security risk.  Not the least since proving somebody is a Communist or a Communist Sympathizer is pretty damn hard especially without current party membership, in that case you have to guess what their thoughts are and then make decisions based on those thoughts they might be having.  Much easier, and more Constitutional, to not waste time doing that and look for evidence of espionage or something they are actively doing that would compromise national security.

So then by that logic we ought to forego security & background checks on those applying for sensitive/important positions and then wait until they sell secrets before we do anything.  Brilliant.

[Sheilbh]

McCarthyism was a mechanism for obscuring such knowledge not elucidating it.

Exactly.

[Valmy]

So then by that logic we ought to forego security & background checks on those applying for sensitive/important positions and then wait until they sell secrets before we do anything.  Brilliant.

Ah yes this old canard.  Our nation will be doomed unless we over-react and persecute innocent people OH NOES.  Yeah ok whatever.  Still waiting for that sky to fall.

[Sheilbh]

Ah yes this old canard.  Our nation will be doomed unless we over-react and persecute innocent people OH NOES.  Yeah ok whatever.  Still waiting for that sky to fall.

Let's not go mad. We should still spy on communists and vet sensitive position (and politicians), we just shouldn't make it a theatrical event.

[Jacob]

It's all about Risk Management.  Communists were risky people to put in important positions.

No further questions.

It is clear that derspiess advocates suspending the Constitutional rights of people he dislikes. As such, it is fair to consider him Anti-American.

What constitutional rights?

The right of freedom of association as per the First Amendment (see:  National Association for the Advancement of Colored People v. Alabama); which is curtailed if group membership is punished absent evidence of actual wrongdoing.

I'm surprised that a conservative such as yourself thinks that the government should punish thoughtcrime.

[derspiess]

Let's not go mad. We should still spy on communists and vet sensitive position (and politicians), we just shouldn't make it a theatrical event.

I'll admit it did get a bit theatrical.

[derspiess]

The right of freedom of association as per the First Amendment (see:  National Association for the Advancement of Colored People v. Alabama); which is curtailed if group membership is punished absent evidence of actual wrongdoing.

Okay.  So how am I advocating group membership be punished?

I'm surprised that a conservative such as yourself thinks that the government should punish thoughtcrime.

I generally don't.  But I think communists during the Cold War should've been looked at very closely.  Just as Nazis/Fascists/sympathizers should have been looked at closely during WWII.

[Razgovory]

So despite all his talk about treason, you can't name any actual spies he outed?  Anyone he was able to prove actually committed treason?  Remember, his claims were that communist agents in the government were handing the communists victories, most notably in China.

Is this one of those Razz tricks where I answer the question and then you change your criteria from "actual spy" to "convicted spy"?  Anyway, I believe the Venona transcripts corroborated some of the people on his list. 

But even with zero evidence of espionage, communists in sensitive federal agencies represented a security risk in that day & age and it was well worth the effort to identify them.

My question was that was he able to actually prove anyone was a spy or committing treason.  That is not a shift in criteria.  I was clear about that from the beginning.  Was he able to prove someone was actually a spy?  As far as I know he was not able to.

[DGuller]

I shouldn't be surprised that derspiess thinks favourably of McCarthyism; but somehow I still am.

Damn right you shouldn't be.  What has derspiess ever done or said to deserve such ridiculous benefit of the doubt?

[Razgovory]

You know, It just occurred to me, this who Christie thing is just too convenient.  The story broke less then 500 days after the Benghazi attacks.  What is Obama hiding?

[Razgovory]

Ah yes this old canard.  Our nation will be doomed unless we over-react and persecute innocent people OH NOES.  Yeah ok whatever.  Still waiting for that sky to fall.

Let's not go mad. We should still spy on communists and vet sensitive position (and politicians), we just shouldn't make it a theatrical event.

Thing is many of these people were not in sensitive positions, or even employees by the State department.  Grilling people who worked in the cafeteria over being a member of a communist group 15 years ago isn't helpful.