Basic income

[Eddie Teach]

This is the worst thread I have ever read in my life.
I feel like puking.

That's just the Miller Lite.

[Sheilbh]

It's an interesting idea. I think it is quite attractive in many ways.

From what I understand it was quite successful and popular when parts of England had something similar in the 18th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speenhamland_system

I hope Switzerland go for it. Between this and their banker bonus limit we'll get some interesting case studies if nothing else.

[Tamas]

It's an interesting idea. I think it is quite attractive in many ways.

From what I understand it was quite successful and popular when parts of England had something similar in the 18th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speenhamland_system

I hope Switzerland go for it. Between this and their banker bonus limit we'll get some interesting case studies if nothing else.

yeah, I mean to me the idea seems just a practical acknowledgment of a system that is largely in place already (unfortunately, but hey). Namely, that (almost) everyone who is unable to work, or unwilling to work because being satisfied with the substinance lifestyle, can get by thanks to various state spending. And that sounds exactly like the intention behind a welfare state, so why not eliminate the complexities of trying to individually decide who is eligible to what portion of grants, and instead make it universal?
It would cut down on administration efforts and cost, would be helping generating demand from the bottom up instead of printing money, giving it to Warren Buffet, and hoping he will do something useful with it, and it would -allegedly- help poor people feel safer, since they could be certain that even if losing their livelihoods, they and their kids would be able to get by, and not be at the mercy of some government office.

[Siege]

Socialist experimentation is a crime.

[Neil]

Socialist experimentation is a crime.

It really isn't.  You're looking at the way of the future.

[Tamas]

Socialist experimentation is a crime.

such a system, if it works, could actually strengthen the free market, since it would remove a lot of rules and regulations while also giving a pretty predictable level of minimal demand on the economy. At least in theory.

[Siege]

Socialist experimentation is a crime.

such a system, if it works, could actually strengthen the free market, since it would remove a lot of rules and regulations while also giving a pretty predictable level of minimal demand on the economy. At least in theory.

Exactly. Free market economy have been proven to work. Socialism have been proven to fail.
I really don't understand the suicidal tendency.
You guys are as suicidal as Daybreak.

[Neil]

Most things work, and then fail.  The free market has certainly done it a number of times.

[Tamas]

Most things work, and then fail.  The free market has certainly done it a number of times.

It did not. When nothing can move the stock market more than the Fed, it is not a free market.

[Neil]

Most things work, and then fail.  The free market has certainly done it a number of times.

It did not. When nothing can move the stock market more than the Fed, it is not a free market.

What's your point?

[Tamas]

Most things work, and then fail.  The free market has certainly done it a number of times.

It did not. When nothing can move the stock market more than the Fed, it is not a free market.

What's your point?

that the current global financial and economical system is pretty far from being a free market.

[Neil]

Most things work, and then fail.  The free market has certainly done it a number of times.

It did not. When nothing can move the stock market more than the Fed, it is not a free market.

What's your point?

that the current global financial and economical system is pretty far from being a free market.

But that's a good thing.

[Tamas]

Most things work, and then fail.  The free market has certainly done it a number of times.

It did not. When nothing can move the stock market more than the Fed, it is not a free market.

What's your point?

that the current global financial and economical system is pretty far from being a free market.

But that's a good thing.

no

[DGuller]

The USA actually has the EITC system in place which is based on Friedman's model. However, I don't think a basic income and a negative tax system are the same. The former is not targeted, but general, which I see as a downside as it doesn't address need. And it might create a disincentive to work if wages are directly substracted from it.
The latter has a better set of incentives for an individual to work as it is always better to earn an extra dollar to getting the negative tax credit. But has a disincentive for an employer to pay a fair wage as it basically supplements low wages with tax money.

Subtracting wages from basic income would kinda defeat the whole point of the idea, and it reduces to welfare payment system.  The whole point is that Bill Gates and Joe the Schmoe get the same payment.

I see a real benefit to freedom from such a program, since without extensive social protections, your biological need to survive can economically cancel out many of the nominal freedoms you're supposed to have.  On the other hand, the economics of it are untested, to say the least.

[Admiral Yi]

that the current global financial and economical system is pretty far from being a free market.

I'm not sure how the existence of a central bank with control over the money supply undermines free market principles.  The central bank is not picking winners and losers with tight money, nor with loose money.