Basic income

[Zanza]

The thread or the Swiss law?

I think they're still at the signature-gathering stage.

No, the Swiss federal government confirmed that there'll be a plebiscite on the introduction of a basic income in late October. They haven't set a date yet though.

[Iormlund]

The thread or the Swiss law?

I think they're still at the signature-gathering stage.

They got enough signatures. A referendum has to take place in a couple years now.


On the topic itself, I'm confused as to why would you want this not to discourage work. That, in my mind, is the whole point of it. You don't have to work if you either can't or don't want to.
It is also why I only see it becoming viable with a much larger degree of automation.

[Ideologue]

But if you do, it would seem that people would have incentive to work a minimum wage job. If minimum wage and basic income were both $15k, you could either do nothing and get $15k or work and get $30k.

Basic income would need to be kept very low, or else some people would decide sitting around playing video games was better than pursuing education and working.

So what?  The problem of the 21st century is that not all of us are necessary.

[crazy canuck]

But if you do, it would seem that people would have incentive to work a minimum wage job. If minimum wage and basic income were both $15k, you could either do nothing and get $15k or work and get $30k.

Basic income would need to be kept very low, or else some people would decide sitting around playing video games was better than pursuing education and working.

So what?  The problem of the 21st century is that not all of us are necessary.

Has there been a time in history when that statement was false?

[Ideologue]

The population bottleneck following the Toba catastrophe and the reduction of the human race to an endangered species.  But I guess that's prehistory.

No, I think prior to the late 20th century, added population meant more economic activity.  Technically, this is still probably true, but I wonder if we're approaching the point, if we have not passed it, that the marginal productivity of each further human in the developed nations is equal to the cost to the individual and society of feeding, housing, and educating him or her.

[CountDeMoney]

Now, for me, the promise in such a basic income would be the elimination of all other welfare handouts, like social aid and unemployment aid, maternity payments etc, with the elimination of the bureaucracy involved in organizing the distribution of those.

Sounds like bullshit, and it would only perpetuate Welfare Queenism and all that other stuff darkies do to avoid work and mooch off real Americans. 
If people want a basic income, they should work at McDonald's after school instead.

[Siege]

This is the worst thread I have ever read in my life.
I feel like puking.

[Siege]

Brezhnev promised that during the Ninth Five-Year Plan the minimum pay of workers and employees (but not collective farmers) would be raised from the present level of 60 rubles per month to 70 rubles (US$78.40). This might affect as much as one-third of the urban labor force. The basic salary scale for teachers, doctors (now receiving approximately $120 a month), medical personnel, and workers in service industries was also to be raised. Old age pensions were to increase from 30 to 45 rubles as a minimum monthly payment. Mothers were to receive more paid days off to look after sick children, and university students' stipends ($35 a month) were to be raised by 25 percent. A most significant welfare innovation was the announcement that a family allowance (no specific figure was cited) would be provided for those families with per capita incomes of less than 50 rubles a month

[CountDeMoney]

This is the worst thread I have ever read in my life.
I feel like puking.

No shit, my arguably semitic warrior of the desert.  Disgusting, amirite?

[Siege]

This is the worst thread I have ever read in my life.
I feel like puking.

No shit, my arguably semitic warrior of the desert.  Disgusting, amirite?

arguably?

[Ideologue]

Brezhnev promised that during the Ninth Five-Year Plan the minimum pay of workers and employees (but not collective farmers) would be raised from the present level of 60 rubles per month to 70 rubles (US$78.40). This might affect as much as one-third of the urban labor force. The basic salary scale for teachers, doctors (now receiving approximately $120 a month), medical personnel, and workers in service industries was also to be raised. Old age pensions were to increase from 30 to 45 rubles as a minimum monthly payment. Mothers were to receive more paid days off to look after sick children, and university students' stipends ($35 a month) were to be raised by 25 percent. A most significant welfare innovation was the announcement that a family allowance (no specific figure was cited) would be provided for those families with per capita incomes of less than 50 rubles a month

Gee, it's too bad purchasing power parity isn't a fucking thing that exists.

It's also too bad that the 1970s USSR and 21st century West are exactly the same in terms of economic structure and raw GDP!

[Ed Anger]

I want food stamps. I should get a lot with 5 kids.

[Razgovory]

Hey Siege, when's the last time you actually worked for a private business?  You know, actually be part of the capitalistic society?

[Tamas]

This is the worst thread I have ever read in my life.
I feel like puking.

its basically like negative income tax:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/NegativeIncomeTax.html

The idea of a negative income tax (NIT) is commonly thought to have originated with economist Milton Friedman, who advocated it in his 1962 book, Capitalism and Freedom

You, sir, by puking over this, are an enemy of freedom and everything America stands for.

[Zanza]

The USA actually has the EITC system in place which is based on Friedman's model. However, I don't think a basic income and a negative tax system are the same. The former is not targeted, but general, which I see as a downside as it doesn't address need. And it might create a disincentive to work if wages are directly substracted from it.
The latter has a better set of incentives for an individual to work as it is always better to earn an extra dollar to getting the negative tax credit. But has a disincentive for an employer to pay a fair wage as it basically supplements low wages with tax money.