Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Razgovory]

I gotta say one of the great ancillary benefits of this crisis is that the death to Amerikkka/no war crowd are showing their true colors.

What an odd thing to say.

[crazy canuck]

You cant have it both ways - either she is in the pocket of energy interests and Tamas is correct or she has no interest in enriching herself 

It can actually be both. I would expect her to look out for BASF or the big energy companies and try to get a good deal for them. Her reward are photo-ops with Germany's captains of industry to show off how well she's managing our economy.

But she personally will not get a personal kickback. She lives in a city apartment owned by her husband's employer. Her private car is a Volkswagen Golf and she is not known for spending her holidays on some billionaire's yacht. She even does her grocery shopping herself when she has the time.

Being in someone's pocket means you are doing their bidding in return for money.

You are agreeing with my initial point which was she is doing what she is doing because she believes it is best for the economy and in turn for all Germans, not because she is being paid off.

[crazy canuck]

I gotta say one of the great ancillary benefits of this crisis is that the death to Amerikkka/no war crowd are showing their true colors.

What an odd thing to say.

I dont even understand what he is saying.

[Sheilbh]

But she personally will not get a personal kickback. She lives in a city apartment owned by her husband's employer. Her private car is a Volkswagen Golf and she is not known for spending her holidays on some billionaire's yacht. She even does her grocery shopping herself when she has the time.

I agree Merkel won't benefit.

But it's not just kickbacks, though that's part of it. It's things like hiring a retired politician for consultancy - see Tony Blair's sterling work consulting the Kazakhstan government on democratisation - or appointing them to a position with a company possibly largely funded by sovereigns, or investing in a retired politician's business, or using their lobbying firm a lot. Even hiring them for lots of after-dinner speeches (at $100 000 a pop).

It's not just old school corruption but the general inveiglement of Western leaders, authoritarians and the super-rich. I think a lot of our politicians aren't that different than Mariah Carey, Beyonce or the London School of Economics performing for Saif Gadaffi.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't get the hubub about the British memo.  The Exchequer was asked for an opinion on closing British finance to Russians and they said it would hurt.

And presumably it was written by career civil servants, who are not in line for Gazprom board seats or paid speeches in Moscow.

[Jacob]

I dont even understand what he is saying.

He's saying that many of the supposed ball of light pro-peace lefties are functionally anti-American pro-Russian shills regardless of the facts on the ground; contrary to what they might claim themselves.

[The Larch]

Spain has actually been building a strategic gas reserve using these kind of natural caverns as reservoirs. Would be really surprised if it's not something most developed countries have been doing.

It is an EU strategic requiriment.

[crazy canuck]

I dont even understand what he is saying.

He's saying that many of the supposed ball of light pro-peace lefties are functionally anti-American pro-Russian shills regardless of the facts on the ground; contrary to what they might claim themselves.

Ah, no wonder I didnt understand.  It makes no sense.

[Razgovory]

I dont even understand what he is saying.

He's saying that many of the supposed ball of light pro-peace lefties are functionally anti-American pro-Russian shills regardless of the facts on the ground; contrary to what they might claim themselves.

I didn't think there was much in the way of "pro-war", people out there.  For instance I don't consider Merkel or Cameron "Lefties", but they don't seem interested in war at all.

[Zanza]

Carrying that thought forward, I'll just say that I find it "concerning" that anywhere America finds a state sponsor of terrorism or a an autocrat we also find a country Germany does a lot of business with, just sayin'.

Is that a reference to Iran? Their biggest trading partners according to CIA factbook are:
Exports: China, India, Turkey, South Korea, Japan
Imports: UAE, China, Turkey, South Korea

According to German statistics, Iran is our 60th biggest trading partner.

Anyway, Germany being among the foremost trading nations in the world you'll find that we trade "a lot" with just about everybody.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

My proposed solution:

Ukraine agrees to give the Crimea, all of it to Russia.

Ukraine joins NATO.

I agree.  Oh, Odessa should go back to Russia too.

Can we give them College Station instead?

[Malthus]

I dont even understand what he is saying.

He's saying that many of the supposed ball of light pro-peace lefties are functionally anti-American pro-Russian shills regardless of the facts on the ground; contrary to what they might claim themselves.

I don't think that is true at all, but I am amazed at how vociferous the support for (of all people) Putin and his merry horde is out there in Internet-comment land. It's bizzare. 

[Sheilbh]

You are agreeing with my initial point which was she is doing what she is doing because she believes it is best for the economy and in turn for all Germans, not because she is being paid off.

Okay, but it's not something I ever accused her of.

I don't get the hubub about the British memo.  The Exchequer was asked for an opinion on closing British finance to Russians and they said it would hurt.

And presumably it was written by career civil servants, who are not in line for Gazprom board seats or paid speeches in Moscow.

It was government policy - a briefing paper - not an opinion by the Exchequer. There were already rumours that the big opposition to financial sanctions was coming from London.

The official in question is Hugh Powell, Deputy National Security Advisor. He's the son of Maggie's old foreign policy advisor Charles Powell (who since 1992 has worked in various consultancy roles and directorships, such as to BAE and Jardines, while also being a sometime envoy in East Asia) and the nephew of Jonathan Powell Blair's former Chief of Staff (previously described as a 'useful idiot' for Putin and after leaving government he took a few well-paid jobs in the City too).

Obviously I don't think there's anything deliberate going on, it was just an accident and I don't even think there's any direct corruption. But I think the inveiglement of our politics, authoritarian regimes and big business does have an effect on the policies we pursue and even consider.

Not that I can think of an answer to it.

Have we heard more yet about that leaked memo? I wasn't particularly fazed as I didn't even know who gave it credence.

Downing Street confirmed it's policy.

I didn't think there was much in the way of "pro-war", people out there.  For instance I don't consider Merkel or Cameron "Lefties", but they don't seem interested in war at all.

The position you take on who is at fault in this situation, seems to map pretty neatly onto leading anti-war figures. And the anti-war movement itself hasn't spent their time criticising Russia but blaming the US and the EU (see the Stop the War Coalitions '10 things about Crimea). There are honourable exceptions of course.

Having said that there's not been any surprises to me so far. Generally the hacks and politicians I'd expect to back Russia in this situation, have.

[Caliga]

I agree.  Oh, Odessa should go back to Russia too.

Can we give them College Station instead?

Meet halfway and give them Abilene?

[Sheilbh]

I don't think that is true at all, but I am amazed at how vociferous the support for (of all people) Putin and his merry horde is out there in Internet-comment land. It's bizzare. 

Yep. It's real enemy of my enemy stuff

I got into an argument on Twitter with a regular TV talking head I've chatted to before who was suggesting that Russia hadn't invaded because they'd been invited by the democratically elected head of Crimea and anyway why should the West support neo-Nazis. It's kind of depressing.

Edit: Although I suppose it's not that different than the Peace Movement or CND in the 80s.