News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Ukraine's European Revolution?

Started by Sheilbh, December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 ... 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ... 334
User actions

Razgovory

#1275
February 28, 2014, 01:11:08 PM
What if Ukraine is not interested in being partitioned?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Queequeg

#1276
February 28, 2014, 01:12:33 PM
QuoteI rather suspect that Putin has ordered this as something of a show of strength, but that he'd be foolish to try and turn this into something permanent.
This.  He can't afford to be seen as week or buffoonish, or that his will can be countermanded by protest. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Admiral Yi

#1277
February 28, 2014, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 28, 2014, 01:04:54 PM
:yes: Crimea is Ukraine's Sudetenland.  The only solution that will bring about lasting peace is ceding it.  :)

I don't see the merit in either of those claims.

What partition does do is mitigate the pendulum between pro-Western governments that eastern Ukrainians dislike and pro-Russian governments that western Ukrainians dislike.

Valmy

#1278
February 28, 2014, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 28, 2014, 01:11:08 PM
What if Ukraine is not interested in being partitioned?

Well then it shouldn't be.  But the question is: who speaks for Ukraine?  Are these supposed pro-Russian Eastern Provinces interested in becoming part of the Russian Federation or becoming a new version of Belorussia?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

DGuller

#1279
February 28, 2014, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 28, 2014, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 28, 2014, 01:04:54 PM
:yes: Crimea is Ukraine's Sudetenland.  The only solution that will bring about lasting peace is ceding it.  :)

I don't see the merit in either of those claims.
Of course you don't.

Razgovory

#1280
February 28, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 28, 2014, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 28, 2014, 01:04:54 PM
:yes: Crimea is Ukraine's Sudetenland.  The only solution that will bring about lasting peace is ceding it.  :)

I don't see the merit in either of those claims.

What partition does do is mitigate the pendulum between pro-Western governments that eastern Ukrainians dislike and pro-Russian governments that western Ukrainians dislike.

Also it's probably easier on Yi's stock portfolio.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#1281
February 28, 2014, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 28, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
Also it's probably easier on Yi's stock portfolio.

How so?

Razgovory

#1282
February 28, 2014, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 28, 2014, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 28, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
Also it's probably easier on Yi's stock portfolio.

How so?

Oil crisis is rarely good for the economy.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Solmyr

#1283
February 28, 2014, 01:25:34 PM
If Kosovo can secede from Serbia, Crimea can secede from Ukraine.

derspiess

#1284
February 28, 2014, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 28, 2014, 01:06:59 PM
Sure, he can turn Crimea into another Abkhazia, but does that really serve Russia's interests?  What Putin wants is a complaint government in Kiev under Russian influence. 

I think he knows that ship has sailed and will settle for territory instead.

I still say we (NATO) persuade Ukraine to voluntarily give up Crimea in exchange for fast track NATO membership.  Crimea's Russians will always be a problem for Ukraine; might as well part ways now and reduce the Russian % of the electorate. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Queequeg

#1285
February 28, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
That's actually not going to do that much.  The Crimea is tiny. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

derspiess

#1286
February 28, 2014, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 28, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
That's actually not going to do that much.  The Crimea is tiny. 

Yet it poses big problems.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Queequeg

#1287
February 28, 2014, 01:32:45 PM
When the Crimea breaks off it is going to set a precedent.  If the reforms actually get through and Eastern Ukrainian industry dies while the West starts to get some investment we will be looking at an actual breakup in another 9 years. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Barrister

#1288
February 28, 2014, 01:35:02 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on February 28, 2014, 01:25:34 PM
If Kosovo can secede from Serbia, Crimea can secede from Ukraine.

And we all see how well that has worked out for everyone involved.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

#1289
February 28, 2014, 01:38:14 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on February 28, 2014, 01:25:34 PM
If Kosovo can secede from Serbia, Crimea can secede from Ukraine.

Yeah...not a good comparison.  First I think that secession was a bad idea secondly at least Serbia had sent in goons to commit atrocities.  To the best of my knowledge pro-Russian Crimeans are not being dragged from their beds by Ukrainian nationalists.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."
Print
Go Up Pages 1 ... 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ... 334
User actions