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Ukraine's European Revolution?

Started by Sheilbh, December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM

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Valmy

Quote from: Syt on February 28, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Austrian paper Die Presse quotes Russian agency Ria Novosti that the Russian parliament is to vote on a law that would make the addition of foreign territory easier; a referendum of the local populace would be sufficient.

They should let a Neutral party like the United States supervise the referendum -_-
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

derspiess

Quote from: Syt on February 28, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Austrian paper Die Presse quotes Russian agency Ria Novosti that the Russian parliament is to vote on a law that would make the addition of foreign territory easier; a referendum of the local populace would be sufficient.

Good opportunity for countries across the world to get rid of territory they don't want :menace:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Grinning_Colossus

Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2014, 02:51:30 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 28, 2014, 02:44:30 PM
Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.

Well fortunately the benevolent nations of Iran and Georgia also border Armenia.

Armenia has good relations with Iran. All that matters to them is that they're on their side against the Azerbaijan-Turkey axis. Relations with Georgia are okay but can't get too cozy because of Russia, Georgia's economic relationship with Azerbaijan and Turkey, and Georgians' reflexive hatred of Armenians.
Quis futuit ipsos fututores?

Sheilbh

I don't think you can say Ukraine's ungovernable given their impressively disciplined response to a lot of provocation. Actually speaks rather well of their civil-military position if nothing else.
Let's bomb Russia!

derspiess

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 28, 2014, 03:06:29 PM
I don't think you can say Ukraine's ungovernable given their impressively disciplined response to a lot of provocation. Actually speaks rather well of their civil-military position if nothing else.

Or it speaks to just knowing you have no chance at winning.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Crazy_Ivan80

might as well make a bigger mess of the situation: Have Ukraine extend citizenship to Tatars elsewhere!

alfred russel

Quote from: Barrister on February 28, 2014, 02:50:30 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 28, 2014, 02:44:30 PM
Georgia is actually doing okay-ish.  Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.  The Baltics are great.  Who expected much from Central Asia?

Georgia was the country I was thinking of when I said Ukraine was 2nd best.

Nominal per capita income of former Soviet States (ignoring the central asian ones, all values from wikipedia):
Estonia: 18,127
Lithuania: 16,600
Latvia: 15,991
Russia: 15,717
Azerbaijan: 7,850
Belarus: 6,739
Ukraine: 3,862
Georgia: 3,596
Armenia: 3,334
Moldova: 2,037
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Baron von Schtinkenbutt

Quote from: derspiess on February 28, 2014, 12:35:01 PM
From what I've read, Russia is still not owning up to their airport shenanigans.

And apparently they are using a PMC to make that easier:

Quote
Exclusive: Russian 'Blackwater' Takes Over Ukraine Airport

The troops who have taken over two airports in Crimea are not Russian military, but they could be security contractors working for the Russian military, and they are there to stay.

Private security contractors working for the Russian military are the unmarked troops who have now seized control over two airports in the Ukrainian province of Crimea, according to informed sources in the region. And those contractors could be setting the stage for ousted President Viktor Yanukovich to come to the breakaway region.

The new Ukrainian government in Kiev has accused Moscow of "an armed invasion and occupation" in the Crimean cities of Simferopol and Sevastopol, where well-armed and well-organized troops with no markings or identification have taken control of the airports. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Secretary of State John Kerry over the phone Friday that no Russian military or marines have been deployed outside of the base of the Black Sea Fleet, which is anchored nearby, officials in both governments said.

Lavrov was technically telling the truth, but the troops are being directed by the Russian government. Although not confirmed, informed sources in Moscow are telling their American interlocutors that the troops belong to Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana, the private security contracting bureau inside the Russian interior ministry that hires mercenaries to protect Russian Navy installations and assets in Crimea. Other diplomatic sources said that the troops at the airport were paramilitary troops but not specifically belonging to Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana.

Read the rest at the Beast, you lazy gits. :P

Valmy

Easy access to Europe seems to be the primary determinant of wealth...well except for Moldova I have no explanation there.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

alfred russel

Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2014, 03:18:21 PM
Easy access to Europe seems to be the primary determinant of wealth...well except for Moldova I have no explanation there.

Their access is Romania.  :lol:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Crazy_Ivan80

and a chunck is occupied by Russia (Transniestra)

Razgovory

I wonder where Seedy is.  He's normally bouncing off the walls when this kind of news comes in.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

DGuller

Why?  So far both the Ukrainian-speaking cats and the Russian-speaking cats have been saying clear of the conflict, and evidently not giving much shit about it.

alfred russel

Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2014, 03:18:21 PM
Easy access to Europe seems to be the primary determinant of wealth...well except for Moldova I have no explanation there.

Russia is quite high though. So is Azerbaijan (relatively speaking). I think massive fossil fuel exploitation is the other factor.

If I pulled in the central asian countries:

Kazakhstan 11,772
Turkmenistan 4,658
Uzbekistan 1,780
Kyrgyzstan 1,070
Tajikistan 831
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

derspiess

Quote from: Razgovory on February 28, 2014, 03:32:45 PM
I wonder where Seedy is.  He's normally bouncing off the walls when this kind of news comes in.

I think he's been busy collecting blankets & supplies for cats affected by the unrest.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall