Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?

[Malthus]

Rich kid Malthus complains about getting well above the then minimum wage.

I never complained about getting $10 an hour working at the family business. That was pretty good money, for a student.

I complained - or rather, was dissatisfied with - the roughly $2 an hour (after overhead) I was making in my own studeo, as an adult.

[The Brain]

Your stu-stu-studeo?

[merithyn]

All the guys I know who had arranged marriages (within the Sihk community) are all still happily married (although admittedly the sample size is small).  Over half the guys I know who married for love are now divorced - some of them multiple times.

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

Having said all that, there is no way in hell I would have trust my parent's judgment.

Once, a long time ago, I had a conversation about this with a friend of mine from India. She was preparing for her upcoming arranged marriage, and was trying to find pleasure in the process. In fact, she was horribly depressed and very unhappy, as she felt that the man her parents had chosen was terribly, terribly wrong for her.

The conversation went along the lines of this: Marrying for love sets up certain unrealistic expectations that are very hard to maintain through the years. Marrying a virtual stranger, on the other hand, means that you're marrying for very different reasons and have very different expectations.

She felt that though she didn't necessarily care for the man she was about to marry, she knew that it wasn't meant to be a "love" marriage. It was, for all intents and purposes, a marriage of convenience for both of them, and so long as they could carry on a conversation and live in the same house together, she would be okay. With luck, they might actually come to care for one another.

I see the value in that way of looking at things. At the same time, it's not a way that I could live for any length of time. If I'm going to compromise on everything for the rest of my life with someone, I damn well better care if he lives or dies.

[Malthus]

All the guys I know who had arranged marriages (within the Sihk community) are all still happily married (although admittedly the sample size is small).  Over half the guys I know who married for love are now divorced - some of them multiple times.

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

Having said all that, there is no way in hell I would have trust my parent's judgment.

Yes, but as you hint, being still married after many years isn't, I think, a good metric to measure marriages by. Naturally, those who take seriouly a traditional culture that frowns on divorce are less likely to get divorced that those who are not - but that would be true whether the marriages were miserable or happy (or indifferent).

Those who marry for love may get divorced easily when the love is gone and remarry - but the net result is that, over their lifetime, they spend more of ot married to someone they love.

That said, the big problem I see is from the other side - that is, an increasingly large number of people, offered seemingly complete freedom to marry whom they will and few societal barriers, and indeed computer-assisted matchmaking at will, are apparently incapable of meeting and mating with anyone.    Some of these people would have been better off in a traditional society where such stuff was structured for them.

[Ideologue]

I wouldn't say anyone.

[crazy canuck]

I wouldn't say anyone.

He meant voluntarily.

[Valmy]

No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

The societal norms that you live in aren't constrictive. What if those "norms" required you to dress a certain way, act a certain way, learn only that which is approved, marry only someone who is just like you, and limited the careers that you could do?

Any particular reason why "norms" is being written like that?

It would entirely depend upon how unsatisfied I felt, what reasons I might have for defying said conventions, and how compelling they might be compared to the price.  You know, what I said before, I would have to have good reasons for doing so.

[Malthus]

I wouldn't say anyone.

He meant voluntarily.

[merithyn]

No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

The societal norms that you live in aren't constrictive. What if those "norms" required you to dress a certain way, act a certain way, learn only that which is approved, marry only someone who is just like you, and limited the careers that you could do?

Any particular reason why "norms" is being written like that?

It would entirely depend upon how unsatisfied I felt, what reasons I might have for defying said conventions, and how compelling they might be compared to the price.  You know, what I said before, I would have to have good reasons for doing so.

Max is coming at it from a very different perspective. What you would consider "norms" are not what his family would consider "norms", hence the quotes.

And the norms for his family are incredibly restrictive: specific clothing, specific facial hair, specific education, specific employment, etc. And yes, to a degree, who you marry, since it all has to be approved by not just the individuals, but the parents and the church.

It's not hard to live by societal norms as you know them because they don't have the same restrictions, if any at all. Those who are in arranged marriages, however, are often in circumstances more like those of Max's family than like yours.

[Valmy]

Max is coming at it from a very different perspective. What you would consider "norms" are not what his family would consider "norms", hence the quotes.

And the norms for his family are incredibly restrictive: specific clothing, specific facial hair, specific education, specific employment, etc. And yes, to a degree, who you marry, since it all has to be approved by not just the individuals, but the parents and the church.

It's not hard to live by societal norms as you know them because they don't have the same restrictions, if any at all. Those who are in arranged marriages, however, are often in circumstances more like those of Max's family than like yours.

Exactly.  It seems he had pretty compelling reasons to defy societal norms.  It also took considerably effort and sacrifice on his part.  I think one would need pretty good reasons to do so.  Even if I lived in such a constricted society a lot would depend on how my aspirations interacted with those constrictions.  Maybe having an arranged marriage and a lifetime of farming before me suits me fine.  My ancestors seems alright with it.

[viper37]

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

what would be the consequences of divorcing from a family arranged marriage?  Can both parties freely divorce?

I think we need to understand a few more things about social pressure before concluding they are better off.  If divorcing means your family will turn their back on you, the same way they probably would if you change religion, than I really don't think it's such a wise idea.

[The Brain]

As long as Canadian courts force people to perform religious acts just because some dame can't remarry within her religion all will be well.

[Tonitrus]

Meh, considering my current track record, I doubt my parents would do much worse.

[jimmy olsen]

By the way I was inspired to write this question after reading Otoyomegarari, a historical manga about arranged marriages in 19th century Central Asia. Very detailed art, absolutely beautiful.

http://www.mangareader.net/otoyomegatari/1

[CountDeMoney]

No link with the word "manga" in it could ever lead to anything positive or not stupid.