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Saudi pivots from US

Started by Sheilbh, October 23, 2013, 01:10:23 PM

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Sheilbh

But do you think the benefits of working together outweigh the costs of, say, the Saudis funding the jihadist extreme in Syria, Salafist parties throughout the Arab world and Salafist Mosques across the world? What were the benefits and were they really sufficient to outweigh those costs?
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Barrister on October 23, 2013, 02:29:22 PM
The article mentions the Saudi rejection of a Security Council seat.  But there's more to that story.  Saudi Arabia wasn't merely offered that spot - they had lobbied for it for years.  They had extra diplomats in New York ready to take on those additional responsibilities.  But at the last moment they had new orders from Prince Bandar to turn down the seat.
Yeah. It was a really weird decision. Still not read an article that really explains what the Saudis were thinking with that.
Let's bomb Russia!

crazy canuck

Quote from: Barrister on October 23, 2013, 02:29:22 PM
The article mentions the Saudi rejection of a Security Council seat.  But there's more to that story.  Saudi Arabia wasn't merely offered that spot - they had lobbied for it for years.  They had extra diplomats in New York ready to take on those additional responsibilities.  But at the last moment they had new orders from Prince Bandar to turn down the seat.

So this "pivot", together with rejecting the security council seat, sounds a lot like a carefully thought out plan, and more like a fit of pique.

Meh, sounds more like a kid who is upset he didnt get his own way and so wants to take the ball away so nobody else can play.

Problem for the kid is there are lots of balls and the kid can only play with this group of kids.

derspiess

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 23, 2013, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
Don't worry, Obama's got this.  He just needs to bow to the Saudi king again & all will be fixed.
Why would you worry at all? I mean do you think the US and Saudi growing apart is a good or a bad thing?

Saudi Arabia is the type of "ally" that you may not like a whole lot, but still benefit from.  I'm not a Euro, so I'm not seething with hatred over Saudi Arabia.  They're not perfect, and I'd love for us to be in a position where we didn't need them.  But I don't think we're energy independent enough just yet to break all ties with them.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Queequeg

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 23, 2013, 02:30:45 PM
But do you think the benefits of working together outweigh the costs of, say, the Saudis funding the jihadist extreme in Syria, Salafist parties throughout the Arab world and Salafist Mosques across the world? What were the benefits and were they really sufficient to outweigh those costs?
Honestly, I don't know how many decades they have of being able to afford their funding of international Salafism and 20% native workforce participation.  They'll be Ghana with Muslim Disneyworld in 4 decades. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

crazy canuck

Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 03:39:48 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 23, 2013, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
Don't worry, Obama's got this.  He just needs to bow to the Saudi king again & all will be fixed.
Why would you worry at all? I mean do you think the US and Saudi growing apart is a good or a bad thing?

I'm not a Euro, so I'm not seething with hatred over Saudi Arabia.

You also the guy that was cheering for Syria back in the day until someone explained to you that you were being an idiot.

derspiess

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 23, 2013, 03:53:43 PM
You also the guy that was cheering for Syria back in the day until someone explained to you that you were being an idiot.

You mean when I was 8 years old?  Yeah, that was me :mellow:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

crazy canuck

Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 23, 2013, 03:53:43 PM
You also the guy that was cheering for Syria back in the day until someone explained to you that you were being an idiot.

You mean when I was 8 years old?  Yeah, that was me :mellow:

Most of us knew at the age of 8 who the bad guys in the world were.   Especially since, back then, there were only two sides ;)

Sheilbh

Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 03:39:48 PM
Saudi Arabia is the type of "ally" that you may not like a whole lot, but still benefit from. 
What do you think are the benefits?

I don't know whether I think it would be a good or a bad thing, so I'm genuinely interested in what everyone thinks.
Let's bomb Russia!

CountDeMoney

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 23, 2013, 01:35:10 PM
And perhaps a better question is who cares now that the West has more secure access to oil.

For now.

garbon

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 23, 2013, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 23, 2013, 03:53:43 PM
You also the guy that was cheering for Syria back in the day until someone explained to you that you were being an idiot.

You mean when I was 8 years old?  Yeah, that was me :mellow:

Most of us knew at the age of 8 who the bad guys in the world were.   Especially since, back then, there were only two sides ;)

I grew up in a one-sided era. :)
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

mongers

Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 03:39:48 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 23, 2013, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 23, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
Don't worry, Obama's got this.  He just needs to bow to the Saudi king again & all will be fixed.
Why would you worry at all? I mean do you think the US and Saudi growing apart is a good or a bad thing?

Saudi Arabia is the type of "ally" that you may not like a whole lot, but still benefit from.  I'm not a Euro, so I'm not seething with hatred over Saudi Arabia.  They're not perfect, and I'd love for us to be in a position where we didn't need them.  But I don't think we're energy independent enough just yet to break all ties with them.

Leaving aside that Europeans get far more of their oil from Saudi than the US does, that an odd thing to say in the light of those 15 Saudis who attack the USA on 9/11, you guys really are remarkably tolerant.   :cool:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

derspiess

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 23, 2013, 03:57:49 PM
Most of us knew at the age of 8 who the bad guys in the world were.   Especially since, back then, there were only two sides ;)

I knew the Russians were the bad guys back then.  And according to my grandpa, the "Japs" were not to be trusted.  I think that was the extent of it for me when I was 8. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

Quote from: mongers on October 23, 2013, 04:24:47 PM
Leaving aside that Europeans get far more of their oil from Saudi than the US does, that an odd thing to say in the light of those 15 Saudis who attack the USA on 9/11, you guys really are remarkably tolerant.   :cool:

Either that, or you guys would cut of your nose to spite your face.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/10/23/the-u-s-saudi-crackup-hits-a-dramatic-tipping-point/

QuoteFor much of the past two years,  the closest thing the U.S. had to a back channel with Saudi Arabia was Tom Donilon, the national security adviser until last June. He traveled to the kingdom occasionally to pass private messages to Abdullah; those meetings didn't heal the wounds, but they at least staunched the bleeding. But Susan Rice, Donilon's successor, has not played a similar bridging role.

:lol:  No shit.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall