Occupy Wall Street Turns 2

[crazy canuck]

Boeing is being rather crappy, playing the ol' "extort states for tax breaks" game

Are you getting this from this article, or somewhere else?

The only thing I got from this article was that Boeing was threatening to pick up stakes if the union didn't take the deal.

Tonitrus lived through the years Boeing extorted Washington State

[Ed Anger]

Women. 

[Tonitrus]

Boeing is being rather crappy, playing the ol' "extort states for tax breaks" game

Are you getting this from this article, or somewhere else?

The only thing I got from this article was that Boeing was threatening to pick up stakes if the union didn't take the deal.

A deal with the union is one aspect, state/local tax breaks and other incentives are another.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-15/business/ct-biz-1215-phil-boeing--20131215_1_chicago-based-boeing-teal-group-richard-aboulafia

[The Brain]

Negotiating a business deal is extortion?

[Tonitrus]

To be fair, the Boeing Machinists union is probably one of the more unreasonable and intractable unions out there.  But that being said, Boeing has often pulled the "give us what we want, or we move to Kansas, South Carolina, etc" game many numbers of times.

And they can never be forgiven for relocating their HQ to Chicago. 

[derspiess]

A real socialist.   And she got elected.  In the US.

I always said the Americans wouldn't know a real socialist if they saw one.

They blend in better in some places than in others.  Around here they stick out like a sore thumb.  Like this dude: http://danlabotz.com/

[Admiral Yi]

But that being said, Boeing has often pulled the "give us what we want, or we move to Kansas, South Carolina, etc" game many numbers of times.

Then maybe your beef should be with the state officials who keep giving them what they want rather than with Boeing.

[Tonitrus]

Negotiating a business deal is extortion?

In the same way when a sports franchise say "build us a stadium, or we move the team" is extortion.

But, while nefarious, the company's actions are also understandable.  As there are plenty of politicians out there willing to sell out any and all tax revenue to garner a big company's presence.  As voters see jobs as a tangible thing, and don't care that everyone (even those who don't work there) pay more in overall taxes because of it.

[Tonitrus]

But that being said, Boeing has often pulled the "give us what we want, or we move to Kansas, South Carolina, etc" game many numbers of times.

Then maybe your beef should be with the state officials who keep giving them what they want rather than with Boeing.

Both are to blame.

[Tonitrus]

It's almost certainly impossible, but individual corporate tax breaks should probably be illegal anyway ("equal protection" and all that...or in this case, equal taxation).  If the determining factor then become just whatever deal the company can make with their potential workers, so be it. 

[The Brain]

Negotiating a business deal is extortion?

In the same way when a sports franchise say "build us a stadium, or we move the team" is extortion.

But, while nefarious, the company's actions are also understandable.  As there are plenty of politicians out there willing to sell out any and all tax revenue to garner a big company's presence.  As voters see jobs as a tangible thing, and don't care that everyone (even those who don't work there) pay more in overall taxes because of it.

So it isn't extortion at all. You seem to have a strong sense of entitlement.

[Admiral Yi]

It's almost certainly impossible, but individual corporate tax breaks should probably be illegal anyway ("equal protection" and all that...or in this case, equal taxation).  If the determining factor then become just whatever deal the company can make with their potential workers, so be it.

It should definitely be illegal for Boeing and only Boeing to qualify for tax breaks, but that's not the case.  Anyone can go to a state economic development office with a proposal.

The issue then is should states be allowed to give tax breaks to companies engaging in green field investments and bringing jobs with them, and I don't see why not.  You stated earlier that other tax payers will have to pay more taxes, but states don't do these deals for prestige, they do them because the increased economic activity increases revenues.

[Barrister]

states don't do these deals for prestige, they do them because the increased economic activity increases revenues.

I think that statement is debatable.

[Admiral Yi]

I think that statement is debatable.

Are you arguing from first premises, or do you have an example or two in mind?

[Barrister]

I think that statement is debatable.

Are you arguing from first premises, or do you have an example or two in mind?

I think that politicians rarely do a careful econometric analysis to determine whether or not such incentives are a net positive for their jurisdiction.  Instead they see "JOBS=VOTES" and then ex post facto try and rationalize their decision.