Social Class in America: Three Ladder System

[crazy canuck]

I agree with all of that, of course, but I have another point to debate, and it is this: that the average costs of both being "not-poor" (in terms of perceived necessities of life) and having enough money to ensure your kids have all they need to be not-poor as well, and in addition having sufficient cash to retire on, is rising faster than the average income; and that this is harming generational social mobility for people who are not in the 'underclass'.

Yeah, when I look at my own social and economic mobility and reflect on how hard it would be for me to do the same thing in todays enviornment, it makes me shudder.

Yeah, us poor folks did pretty good. 

[Ducks, runs for cover  ]

I was going to make a quip about how the children of professors have no such trouble.

[Malthus]

Break your leg at work and get a 7 figure settlement.

PROFIT

I would counsel against that kind of risk taking

Speak for yourself, pal.

Ok, you can counsel people to take that risk - then you can pay out part of the settlment 

Better yet - the person who takes that risk can pay you to recover. ALL PART OF THE PLAN! 

[Neil]

I agree with all of that, of course, but I have another point to debate, and it is this: that the average costs of both being "not-poor" (in terms of perceived necessities of life) and having enough money to ensure your kids have all they need to be not-poor as well, and in addition having sufficient cash to retire on, is rising faster than the average income; and that this is harming generational social mobility for people who are not in the 'underclass'.

Yeah, when I look at my own social and economic mobility and reflect on how hard it would be for me to do the same thing in todays enviornment, it makes me shudder.

Yeah, us poor folks did pretty good. 

[Ducks, runs for cover  ]

I was going to make a quip about how the children of professors have no such trouble.

Or the nephews of celebrated cultural icons.

[Malthus]

Or the nephews of celebrated cultural icons.

Yeah, I can take that right to the bank. 

[Jacob]

I dunno cc. One thing that has really struck me as I "grew up" was that all that stuff people tell you about how if you play by the rules and do all the things you're supposed to do you'll be successful is just garbage. Or a mundane definition of success. I'd say that as a general rule, life does not reward work. It rewards risk.

It also punishes risk.

[Neil]

Or the nephews of celebrated cultural icons.

Yeah, I can take that right to the bank. 

Indeed.  Your successful, stable family has set you up for success.  Feel guilty and bad about yourself, because you're taking the bread out of Ideologue's mouth.

[Jacob]

Indeed.  Your successful, stable family has set you up for success.  Feel guilty and bad about yourself, because you're taking the bread out of Ideologue's mouth.

Well... if there's some sort of meat on the bread, Ide wouldn't eat it anyhow; no harm done.

[Malthus]

Or the nephews of celebrated cultural icons.

Yeah, I can take that right to the bank. 

Indeed.  Your successful, stable family has set you up for success.  Feel guilty and bad about yourself, because you're taking the bread out of Ideologue's mouth.

He doesn't eat bread, but candy bars. 

[Neil]

He would eat bread if the depredations of those lucky few hadn't left him with nothing but chocolate and bad peanut butter.

As for the vegetarian thing, I just assume that's brain damage from drinking, fighting or malnourishment.

[MadImmortalMan]

I dunno cc. One thing that has really struck me as I "grew up" was that all that stuff people tell you about how if you play by the rules and do all the things you're supposed to do you'll be successful is just garbage. Or a mundane definition of success. I'd say that as a general rule, life does not reward work. It rewards risk.

It also punishes risk.

That's what I meant by opening up both ends of the bell curve. 

[Jacob]

I don't know if I buy into the "life rewards risk" approach.

I think life rewards minimizing risk while maximizing potential upside. Your starting position - we can call it class or not - determines how much risk you may have to accept for the range of upsides within reach.

Starting, say, an office supplies store has a very different risk profile if all you can provide is sweat equity and personally guaranteed credit compared to, say, a $20K no-strings no interest loan from your father. Similarly, the range of potential upsides - or at least the distribution of likelihood within that range - varies as well; you have a much higher chance of seeing the bigger upsides if you happen to have social connections to high finance types, people familiar with IPOs etc.

So yeah... I think life rewards taking well-calculated risks, luck, and good starting positions.

[Razgovory]

Americans just aren't particularly class-conscious, save for the snobby elites and the resentful self-defeating underclass.

I think I have a pretty good idea whom you mean by the resentful self-defeating underclass... but who do you mean when you say snobby elites?

Jews.

[Jacob]

Jews.

That's not who he meant

[CountDeMoney]

So yeah... I think life rewards taking well-calculated risks, luck, and good starting positions.

You forgot the lack of a moral compass that permits the ability to fuck anybody over at anytime for anything, unfettered by conscience or consideration.

[garbon]

So yeah... I think life rewards taking well-calculated risks, luck, and good starting positions.

You forgot the lack of a moral compass that permits the ability to fuck anybody over at anytime for anything, unfettered by conscience or consideration.

I need to develop that.