Grumbler's Guide On How To Make Friends And Influence People

[grumbler]

This is turning into the Sitzkrieg.

You were right, I was wrong! 

[mongers]

Notice how you weaselled out earlier on your claim that it was I that regard others as inferior, whereas I'd said you regarded.

Ah, it is always more fun when you drop the weasel in favor of the outright lie!   I never said anything about you regarding people as inferior.

Don't worry your posts and posting style will stand the test of time as proof regards you condescending attitude to some others here.

A whole weasel farm, here.    If you had actual examples of me telling people they are "regarded as inferior" you would presumably be posting them, so can we presume that you have nada?

What I am surprise about in this exchange is your failure to bring out 'old grumblers nugget' about how it was the other poster who was first to resort to ad hominem.

That claim of yours was always good for a laugh, so overall I'll have to mark down a bit and give your contribution a B+ on entertainment value. 

Sorry, are you posting here about what I am actually posting, or what you wish I would have posted?  Giving a grade on something never posted seems a bit dotty to me, but to each, his own.

You entertainment me, I appreciate it. 

The grading was a pointer as to how you might still further improve you performance.

[grumbler]

You entertainment me, I appreciate it. 

You English funnily.  I appreciate it. 

The grading was a pointer as to how you might still further improve you performance.

Alas, you seem to have graded something that didn't exist, so "you" grading system needs work.

[mongers]

You entertainment me, I appreciate it. 

You English funnily.  I appreciate it. 

The grading was a pointer as to how you might still further improve you performance.

Alas, you seem to have graded something that didn't exist, so "you" grading system needs work.

Trust me, it exists, plenty of people laugh at your antics.

[crazy canuck]

One can only wonder how much better this thread would have turned out if Grumbler had not spewed all over it.

[grumbler]

One can only wonder how much better this thread would have turned out if Grumbler had not spewed all over it.

Well, now that you have posted, it can't get much worse! 

Sorry to challenge the popular-but-unsupported narrative, but that's gonna happen again, so get used to it.

[garbon]

One can only wonder how much better this thread would have turned out if Grumbler had not spewed all over it.

This thread started pretty poorly so I don't think grumbler really did damage to it.

[garbon]

Also does it make sense to capitalize a non-capitalized name?

[Agelastus]

  I am sure that many people live quite happy lives, as unaware of the fact that others laugh at them

How is that working out for you?

Quite well.  Being sure of things is better when they are actually true, as opposed to being sure of things (like the "fact" that the British were getting ready to evacuate Cairo in 1940) because you read it in a novel.  I'll bet there are still people laughing at you for that one.

I'm still laughing at you for your steadfast belief that Wavell told O'Connor before the second day of Compass that he was taking 4th Indian Division from him when O'Connor's own words, historians of the period, even exchange officers doing theses at West Point on O'Connor's generalship (!) all disagree with you.

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What was this thread about again?

[grumbler]

I'm still laughing at you for your steadfast belief that Wavell told O'Connor before the second day of Compass that he was taking 4th Indian Division from him when O'Connor's own words, historians of the period, even exchange officers doing theses at West Point on O'Connor's generalship (!) all disagree with you.

Still beating that dead horse, eh!    None of your sources actually said what you claim they said.  O'Conner was surprised by the timing; the move of the 4th had been in the works for months.

[mongers]

One can only wonder how much better this thread would have turned out if Grumbler had not spewed all over it.

This thread started pretty poorly so I don't think grumbler really did damage to it.

Wingman action I see.

[garbon]

One can only wonder how much better this thread would have turned out if Grumbler had not spewed all over it.

This thread started pretty poorly so I don't think grumbler really did damage to it.

Wingman action I see.

Hardly, I think I made my disgust known (as many did) before grumbler and you started going toe-to-toe.

[Agelastus]

I'm still laughing at you for your steadfast belief that Wavell told O'Connor before the second day of Compass that he was taking 4th Indian Division from him when O'Connor's own words, historians of the period, even exchange officers doing theses at West Point on O'Connor's generalship (!) all disagree with you.

Still beating that dead horse, eh!    None of your sources actually said what you claim they said.  O'Conner was surprised by the timing; the move of the 4th had been in the works for months.

Believe what you will. There's not one single source that agrees with you, from the Wikipedia page (named solely because it's the first result on google, not because of it's quality) onwards.

Even books on the generalship of General Wavell don't agree with you - try this link:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Bob1Oq72K-EC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=richard+o'connor+generalship&source=bl&ots=l5VuE2ESDc&sig=W5yc_8Q2AXvem7RxA4vaNs9Z9Gw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RRcAUsnNOKWA0AXJioHwDQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwATgU#v=onepage&q=chapter%206&f=false

The critical passages are in chapter 6, page 100 onwards, and includes the following -

"O'Connor, who was unaware of this plan, received his order on the 11 December 1940, 'a most unwelcome piece of news, namely that the 4th Ind. Div. was to be withdrawn as early as possible for service in the Sudan'." This is referenced from Connor's own report on Operation Compass.

Further on we learn the sequence -

02.12.40 - 08.12.40: Sometime between these dates Wavell, under pressure from London and Smuts, makes the decision to send 4th Indian to Sudan (as of the 2nd he's still expressing doubts concerning transport issues and stating that offensives must be launched even if they will be slow - not saying that he's going to transfer troops.)
08.12.40: Wavell telegraphs Dill in London to say that he would transfer 4th Indian "later in the month if situation permits."
09.12.40: Operation Compass begins - Wavell contacts Platt to give tentative details of the transfer, again subject to situation on Western Desert Front.
10.12.40: With the "good news" from the western desert, Wavell decides to bow to the political pressure and expedite the transfer.
11.12.40: O'Connor is told he is to lose the division.

At the very earliest the decision to send 4th Indian cannot be pushed back before the 26.11.40 because that is when he received the cable from Dill expressing London's (and Smuts') disappointment at proposed delays in Cunningham's offensive. Before that cable came offensive operations were due to be delayed until May 1941 instead of commencing in January.

It's also very difficult to square the telegram to Dill on the 8th (which is the first London heard of the transfer) with any suggestions that this was planned with O'Connor in conjunction with Compass since he was already with his men at the front well before this date.

You state two things.

(1) O'Connor knew. From his own words and the timing of the decision we know he did not.
(2) That the move of the 4th Division had been "in the works for months". Which it wasn't; at the most it had been in the works for 2 weeks, and at the least for 3 days before the critical date.

The fact that none of the division boarded ships before the 28th (despite being withdrawn on the 11th and in a position to do so by the 20th) is yet another sign that the decision was not planned far in advance but taken and implemented hastily.

So I'll just continue laughing at you as you continue to tilt at windmills over the issue. 

[The Minsky Moment]

If so, it would give a new meaning to the regrettable derogatory "Indian Giver"

[DGuller]

(lead in feet) X 304.8 = lead in meters

Do you miss a lot?