What's Wrong With American Business Culture And The Economy?

[Zanza]

Unions in North America would also have to change to the German model for this to work.  An even harder sell I would think.

Yeah, for sure; it would require something of a cultural shift.

Well, that's what this thread is about, right?

[fhdz]

He isn't going to get it, dude. If you can't fit it on a spreadsheet Guller can't wrap his brain around it.

It's that time of the month again, eh?

Yep, it's that time of the month where dealing with Asberger-y robo-drones just isn't going to cut it for me. Sorry

[fhdz]

Unions in North America would also have to change to the German model for this to work.  An even harder sell I would think.

Yeah, for sure; it would require something of a cultural shift.

Well, that's what this thread is about, right?

And actually the German union model is *preferable* in a lot of ways to the American model. There's a lot less corruption in the German model, for starters.

[Admiral Yi]

Zanza:  labor can join or walk away at will.  Your system gives them a voice in the disposition of someone else's property without a reciprocating surrender of control over their own labor.

[DGuller]

He isn't going to get it, dude. If you can't fit it on a spreadsheet Guller can't wrap his brain around it.

It's that time of the month again, eh?

Yep, it's that time of the month where dealing with Asberger-y robo-drones just isn't going to cut it for me. Sorry

You don't have to deal with me if you don't want to.  But part of not dealing with me is not taking histrionic potshots at me from the sidelines.  That's also just good adult manners on top of it.

[fhdz]

He isn't going to get it, dude. If you can't fit it on a spreadsheet Guller can't wrap his brain around it.

It's that time of the month again, eh?

Yep, it's that time of the month where dealing with Asberger-y robo-drones just isn't going to cut it for me. Sorry

You don't have to deal with me if you don't want to.  But part of not dealing with me is not taking histrionic potshots at me from the sidelines.  That's also just good adult manners on top of it.

I may be a lot of things, but histrionic isn't one of them.

And you want to talk about "manners"? On Languish? Where you yourself also take potshots on a regular basis? Give me a fucking break, dude.

If you make a comment which shows that you lack an understanding of basic marketing principles or anything beyond a corporation's bottom line being beneficial for the corporation, you are going to get called on it. Simple.

[Syt]

Zanza:  labor can join or walk away at will.  Your system gives them a voice in the disposition of someone else's property without a reciprocating surrender of control over their own labor.

You presume that employees, in general, can find a replacement job as quickly as an employer could find a replacement employee. Given the job market, it's much more likely for an employee to put up with employers' crap (unpaid overtime, no pay raises, cutback of benefits ...) than for an employer to put up with an employee's crap. This is not an balanced relationship.

[HVC]

God fearing fhdz was nicer

[Admiral Yi]

You presume that employees, in general, can find a replacement job as quickly as an employer could find a replacement employee. Given the job market, it's much more likely for an employee to put up with employers' crap (unpaid overtime, no pay raises, cutback of benefits ...) than for an employer to put up with an employee's crap. This is not an balanced relationship.

I do not presume that.  I presume that an employee is free to dispose of his time and labor as he sees fit.

[fhdz]

God fearing fhdz was nicer

I'm getting increasingly sick of dealing with people who think economics is a science rather than an art.

DOES NOT COMPUTE IN EXCEL MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH ARGUMENT BEEP BEEP BOOP

[Admiral Yi]

A discipline with predictive power is a science; a discipline that creates narratives is a humanity.  Economics has predictive power, ergo it is a science.

Of course many disciplines combine the two.  I'm thinking of political science in particular.

[DGuller]

I may be a lot of things, but histrionic isn't one of them.

Evidently, self-aware isn't one of them either.

And you want to talk about "manners"? On Languish? Where you yourself also take potshots on a regular basis? Give me a fucking break, dude.

I don't suffer fools gladly, but I don't piggyback off other people actually trying to have a discussing in order to take a potshot from the sideline.  That's the bitchy part I called you out on.

If you make a comment which shows that you lack an understanding of basic marketing principles or anything beyond a corporation's bottom line being beneficial for the corporation, you are going to get called on it. Simple.

Nah, you just insulted me for no reason, again and again.  I don't know what the fuck is wrong with you, but I'm not it, so don't take it out on me.

[fhdz]

A discipline with predictive power is a science; a discipline that creates narratives is a humanity.  Economics has predictive power, ergo it is a science.

I am not shocked that you feel this way

[fhdz]

I don't suffer fools gladly, but I don't piggyback off other people actually trying to have a discussing in order to take a potshot from the sideline.  That's the bitchy part I called you out on.

1) It's my thread.
2) You posted a comment in response to my comment, which was merely an articulation of Ford's own position and philosophy.
3) Your comment indicated that Ford's philosophy "didn't work", when in fact it most clearly did. You based your comment on an incomplete assessment of economic value.
4) This is Languish. Get over it or get somewhere more comfortable.

[Zanza]

Zanza:  labor can join or walk away at will.  Your system gives them a voice in the disposition of someone else's property without a reciprocating surrender of control over their own labor.

Yes, in principle. That's a choice society can make. Corporations as a legal construct are what society through its political process makes of them.

One thing that might be wrong about American business culture and the economy (see thread title) is that employees as stakeholders in corporations do not get enough representation in corporate governance. I do not advocate that you adopt our system. I merely don't think that corporations have an evident self-interest as DGuller stated and that there are more relevant stakeholders to a corporation than just the shareholders.