License plate cameras track millions of Americans

[Sheilbh]

What if police develop cameras that can record absolutely everything that happens on the streets?  Is it ok, because you don't have expectation of privacy outside of your home?

Yep. And the internet's a public space too.

I've no issue with this.

[PDH]

That was later.  No ether in the car, that's a hard and fast rule.

Listen up people, this is a damn good rule.

[CountDeMoney]

It seems like you guys are up in arms because technology has made it so the police can do their jobs much better, faster, with lower manpower--to such a degree that it's actually creating new ways of doing their job that were technologically impossible in the past. But that's no different than DNA testing and fingerprints--do you guys oppose those as well?

I only oppose it on the grounds that the police aren't qualified to work with such technology better, faster, with lower manpower.  We are talking law enforcement here, you know. 

[Barrister]

I think you are wrong.  A license plate was put on a car for identification, period.  Not just a specific identification request.

The practical reality back then was that license plate would only be looked up if there was a need to look it up. 

You are mistaken.  Cops have always "ran your plates" for no particular reason (like what happened in Yi's case).  They see a vehicle, they run the plate, they pull you over if something is wrong (plate doesn't match vehicle, plate is stolen, owner of plate has warrants, etc).

[CountDeMoney]

The practical reality back then was that license plate would only be looked up if there was a need to look it up. 

You are mistaken.  Cops have always "ran your plates" for no particular reason (like what happened in Yi's case).  They see a vehicle, they run the plate, they pull you over if something is wrong (plate doesn't match vehicle, plate is stolen, owner of plate has warrants, etc).

Yup.  The "need to look it up" was because I wanted to look it up.

It was a little more difficult back in the day before mobile data terminals, though;  we had to have a decent reason to get a tag run, not for any real legal reason but only because we had to call it in over the radio and there was enough traffic on the channel as it was without everybody requesting plates all the time.  Then the dispatcher would get pissy because you're making them "do stuff", and they'd call your sergeant to bitch and he'd roll up on you and tell you to knock the shit off, who are you, fucking Batman or something? 

And when you wanted to annoy the dispatcher back for being such a lazy fucker and crying about it, you'd request a plate check for a vehicle on fire, which just so happened to belong to them.  And then you'd have another, much livelier conversation with the sergeant. 

Some people just have no sense of humor.

[DontSayBanana]

You are mistaken.  Cops have always "ran your plates" for no particular reason (like what happened in Yi's case).  They see a vehicle, they run the plate, they pull you over if something is wrong (plate doesn't match vehicle, plate is stolen, owner of plate has warrants, etc).

As I understand it, the cliff's notes version is that the car's the owner's, but the plates are the state's, so the state doesn't have to ask if it's okay to check a plate that it issued to a driver.

[Barrister]

You are mistaken.  Cops have always "ran your plates" for no particular reason (like what happened in Yi's case).  They see a vehicle, they run the plate, they pull you over if something is wrong (plate doesn't match vehicle, plate is stolen, owner of plate has warrants, etc).

As I understand it, the cliff's notes version is that the car's the owner's, but the plates are the state's, so the state doesn't have to ask if it's okay to check a plate that it issued to a driver.

Not in Canada.  When I have a stolen plate charge the "owner" of the plate is the person who owns the vehicle, not the province.

Instead it comes down to "driving on public highways is a highly regulated activity with severely diminished expectations of privacy".

[11B4V]

  Then the dispatcher would get pissy because you're making them "do stuff", and they'd call your sergeant to bitch and he'd roll up on you and tell you to knock the shit off, who are you, fucking Batman or something? 

hehe, yea.

[Razgovory]

The practical reality back then was that license plate would only be looked up if there was a need to look it up. 

You are mistaken.  Cops have always "ran your plates" for no particular reason (like what happened in Yi's case).  They see a vehicle, they run the plate, they pull you over if something is wrong (plate doesn't match vehicle, plate is stolen, owner of plate has warrants, etc).

Yup.  The "need to look it up" was because I wanted to look it up.

It was a little more difficult back in the day before mobile data terminals, though;  we had to have a decent reason to get a tag run, not for any real legal reason but only because we had to call it in over the radio and there was enough traffic on the channel as it was without everybody requesting plates all the time.  Then the dispatcher would get pissy because you're making them "do stuff", and they'd call your sergeant to bitch and he'd roll up on you and tell you to knock the shit off, who are you, fucking Batman or something? 

And when you wanted to annoy the dispatcher back for being such a lazy fucker and crying about it, you'd request a plate check for a vehicle on fire, which just so happened to belong to them.  And then you'd have another, much livelier conversation with the sergeant. 

Some people just have no sense of humor.

Maybe I would have fit in that profession better then I thought.

[DontSayBanana]

Not in Canada.  When I have a stolen plate charge the "owner" of the plate is the person who owns the vehicle, not the province.

Instead it comes down to "driving on public highways is a highly regulated activity with severely diminished expectations of privacy".

Also, a rationale in the decisions I read.  Basically, the claimants got read the riot act with a litany of reasons why randomly running plates doesn't constitute a fourth amendment violation.

[CountDeMoney]

Maybe I would have fit in that profession better then I thought.

Nah, you would've gotten very frustrated very quickly.  It's kinda like working with Languish, but instead of putting you on "ignore", they'd just put your Signal 13 button response on "ignore" instead.  Not fun.

[DGuller]

I think you are wrong.  A license plate was put on a car for identification, period.  Not just a specific identification request.

The practical reality back then was that license plate would only be looked up if there was a need to look it up. 

You are mistaken.  Cops have always "ran your plates" for no particular reason (like what happened in Yi's case).  They see a vehicle, they run the plate, they pull you over if something is wrong (plate doesn't match vehicle, plate is stolen, owner of plate has warrants, etc).

No, I'm not mistaken, I knew that.  However, the practical reality was that you can't map anyone's movements with that (with the person who you want mapped chosen after the fact, no less), unless you actually tail someone.

[DGuller]

Instead it comes down to "driving on public highways is a highly regulated activity with severely diminished expectations of privacy".

And that's another thing that needs to be revisited.  Driving may have been a privilege when cars first came out, which gave a fig leaf to excuse law enforcement actions that wouldn't be tolerated on a sidewalk, but nowadays it's really a necessity for most people if the want to earn a living.  Our constitutional protections are not worth anything if they're not applicable during activities that are practically necessary.

[Barrister]

Instead it comes down to "driving on public highways is a highly regulated activity with severely diminished expectations of privacy".

And that's another thing that needs to be revisited.  Driving may have been a privilege when cars first came out, which gave a fig leaf to excuse law enforcement actions that wouldn't be tolerated on a sidewalk, but nowadays it's really a necessity for most people if the want to earn a living.  Our constitutional protections are not worth anything if they're not applicable during activities that are practically necessary.

My bar admission is also a necessity for me to make a living, but it comes with all kinds of very invasive regulations as well.

[KRonn]

Well, now there are ideas to put tracking on cars to record mileage for collecting road use taxes. Since as cars have become more efficient, we're using a lot less gas so gas taxes may not keep up.