License plate cameras track millions of Americans

[Razgovory]

Johhny Trustfund doesn't beat up his girlfriend, doesn't buy or sell drugs on the street, and doesn't boost cars.

Your show would have two episodes every ten years when Khan splooges on a maid or Spitzer bangs an escort.

   You really believe that don't you?

[Admiral Yi]

   I'm nutty enough to think most tips aren't pooled either.

[Razgovory]

Not only are the rich better off financially, they are morally superior.

[Admiral Yi]

 

[Razgovory]

You really should stop hitting yourself like that.

[dps]

Johhny Trustfund doesn't beat up his girlfriend, doesn't buy or sell drugs on the street, and doesn't boost cars.

You're probably correct in general about boosting cars, but not so much on the other two.

[Zanza]

I seem to have a very different concept of privacy than a lot of posters here. My default position is that everything I do is private, unless there is some overriding public interest. It doesn't matter if it is me alone in my own dark cellar room or me hanging out with friends in the busiest square in town.
This applies to both other private observers and especially to the government. It's just no ones fucking business what I do all day long.

And tracking me in any way is neither appropriate nor should it be legal. Which I think - at least here - it isn't in most cases. A private person that would track me would probably be considered a stalker. The government tracking me - unless there is very good reason, e.g. I am a suspect in a serious crime - is not constitutional.

Stuff like just tracking everybody's communications via metadata storage or the whereabouts by storing license plates is something that I consider a violation of my privacy. It's not just if the data it used, it's already when it is created. Thankfully our courts see it the same way and have generally outlawed most of these schemes or made them very restrictive. Sadly our government tries nevertheless and isn't particularly interested in protecting our constitutional rights. Fuckers.

[garbon]

I seem to have a very different concept of privacy than a lot of posters here. My default position is that everything I do is private, unless there is some overriding public interest.

Well I'm heard that delusions can be quite comforting.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I seem to have a very different concept of privacy than a lot of posters here. My default position is that everything I do is private, unless there is some overriding public interest. It doesn't matter if it is me alone in my own dark cellar room or me hanging out with friends in the busiest square in town.
This applies to both other private observers and especially to the government. It's just no ones fucking business what I do all day long.

And tracking me in any way is neither appropriate nor should it be legal. Which I think - at least here - it isn't in most cases. A private person that would track me would probably be considered a stalker. The government tracking me - unless there is very good reason, e.g. I am a suspect in a serious crime - is not constitutional.

Stuff like just tracking everybody's communications via metadata storage or the whereabouts by storing license plates is something that I consider a violation of my privacy. It's not just if the data it used, it's already when it is created. Thankfully our courts see it the same way and have generally outlawed most of these schemes or made them very restrictive. Sadly our government tries nevertheless and isn't particularly interested in protecting our constitutional rights. Fuckers.

I would simply say your belief on privacy is both unreasonable and frankly stupid and idiotic. If the law in Germany really reflects precisely what you've spelled out here, likewise to German law (and knowing what I do about German law I'm comfortable in saying despite many shameful quirks in American law German law is ridiculously stupid on a great many issues. I'll never forget when a friend of mine was staying with us and ran afoul of some American red tape and told me it was the first time since he had been in the States he felt like he was in Germany. It reminded me of all the terrible restrictions on behavior codified in German law.)

[Zanza]

My default position is that everything I do is private, unless there is some overriding public interest.

Well I'm heard that delusions can be quite comforting.

Being in public obviously means that you can be observed by private and public actors, pretending that is not so would of course be delusional. That alone is not violating privacy. It becomes a violation of privacy if observation is done in a systematic, planned way, especially when it is recorded, aggregated into a profile and when you may not even be aware that you are observed.

[garbon]

My default position is that everything I do is private, unless there is some overriding public interest.

Well I'm heard that delusions can be quite comforting.

Being in public obviously means that you can be observed by private and public actors, pretending that is not so would of course be delusional. That alone is not violating privacy. It becomes a violation of privacy if observation is done in a systematic, planned way, especially when it is recorded, aggregated into a profile and when you may not even be aware that you are observed.

I'm not sure I agree. Sure I think there might be a case if say I was in a hotel room and you, a paparazzo, used a telephoto lens to snap photos of me naked but if you were just tailing me in your car all day and entering that info into a database, not so much.

[Admiral Yi]

Being in public obviously means that you can be observed by private and public actors, pretending that is not so would of course be delusional. That alone is not violating privacy. It becomes a violation of privacy if observation is done in a systematic, planned way, especially when it is recorded, aggregated into a profile and when you may not even be aware that you are observed.

Such as the German requirement to register your current residence with the authorities?

[Zanza]

Such as the German requirement to register your current residence with the authorities?

Not the best example as it just creates one data point when you move and not a constant surveillance profile, but yes, that's an example of data that should not be collected and certainly not used in the way it is.

When it comes to registration, I think the American way with a regular census to get the necessary anonymous statistical data and an opt-in for voter registration by the citizens is superior to how we do it.

The German registration data is actually not kept in a central database, but rather each municipality (about 5000) only keeps the data on its own inhabitants, and supposedly just reports aggregated data to higher authorities. That's why our recent census found that we have 1.5 million people less than previously thought. From anecdotal evidence I know plenty of people that never register their residence when they move (they often still have their residence registered with their parents or so) and it doesn't really seem to make a difference.

I am not sure if our administrative structure would allow not to have that data, it would certainly be preferable. As far as I know, even the US has some obligatory registrations like Selective Service for young males.

[Admiral Yi]

When does tailing you all day long in your car become criminal stalking? There seems to be at least a minimum standard of privacy that is also enforced by law.

I proposed an acceptable limit earlier in the thread.  Coppers can keep a camera on your license plate at all times, checking to see if the car is stolen or you haven't paid your registration or anything car-related 24/7.  They can't use the information to track your daily movements.

[Zanza]

When does tailing you all day long in your car become criminal stalking? There seems to be at least a minimum standard of privacy that is also enforced by law.

I proposed an acceptable limit earlier in the thread.  Coppers can keep a camera on your license plate at all times, checking to see if the car is stolen or you haven't paid your registration or anything car-related 24/7.  They can't use the information to track your daily movements.

Meh, I deleted that comment as I was not actually sure how stalking is defined in legal terms, so I guess I shouldn't talk about it like I do.

Anyway, police taking pictures of number plates, processing them against a stolen vehicle database or whatever and then immediately deleting them afterwards is acceptable in my opinion. It's long(er) term storage of data and linking it that is problematic. They should not be able to have the ability to check where an unsuspicious car was photographed in the last three months or whatever.


PS: Is "unsuspicious" an English word? Google Chrome marks it as wrong...