Orson Scott Card, Anti-Gay Author, Responds To 'Ender's Game' Boycott Campaign

[garbon]

I'm just making the point you guys are boycotting something that has a high likelihood of not affecting this dude's personal cash flow whatsoever. I think maybe if your intention is to hurt his pocketbook you should at least investigate whether it does or not. (Sort of how the BP branded gas stations actually aren't really part of the BP corporation and thus didn't affect said corporation when boycotted.)

I'm not actually boycotting anything as I didn't have plans to see this anyway (never read any of his books). That said, I don't think you are correct as Meri and I have noted several potential revenue streams for him (and beyond that just the gratification of his ego).

[Neil]

Meri's a spicy latina.  She doesn't do anything halfway.

[OttoVonBismarck]

And I view boycotts of Exxon, BP, Chik-fil-A, Domino's etc as a childish protest gesture but sort of take a "who cares" view on those. Those are just firms out to make money, and people are going to buy or not buy their stuff based on all kinds of reasons, I don't think boycotts of such firms is really injurious to anyone even if I do think them silly and pointless.

But if you like Ender's Game, to boycott the film is basically saying even though I like this work of art, I dislike the person who created it, so I want to see it do badly or etc. It's like the old Italian patrons who would turn artists out into the streets when they took views opposite them on theological or political issues, and I think that's different from just boycotting a business. It's subsuming artistic expression and experience to personal political concerns.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'm just making the point you guys are boycotting something that has a high likelihood of not affecting this dude's personal cash flow whatsoever. I think maybe if your intention is to hurt his pocketbook you should at least investigate whether it does or not. (Sort of how the BP branded gas stations actually aren't really part of the BP corporation and thus didn't affect said corporation when boycotted.)

I'm not actually boycotting anything as I didn't have plans to see this anyway (never read any of his books). That said, I don't think you are correct as Meri and I have noted several potential revenue streams for him (and beyond that just the gratification of his ego).

Boycotters are like conspiracy theorists. I've noticed it doesn't really matter if you explain how much nonsense their beliefs are or what they are doing is, they are committed to it for stupid emotional reasons so will never be swayed, worst kind of imbeciles really. Just like people who buy into "Fair Trade" nonsense or organic food.

[Berkut]

He sure is.

And people are entitled to think he's still a bigot because of the opinion he holds; and they are entitled to not go watch his movie if they're the sort of people who don't want to make movies made by bigots.

I don't care what a person thinks or feels. However, Card puts a portion of his income in trying to force his opinion into law. Because of that, I won't support him or his film. Which sucks, because Card used to be one of my favorite authors, and I've been waiting for this movie for a very long time.

Ah well.

There are probably a good 200+ people involved in the making of a major Hollywood movie. Hell, maybe even two or three times that number. Who knows.

I can assure you that some of those people will use some of their money to do something you do not approve of, or fund some political group you don't like.

So really, you and garbon and everyone else who want to boycott this movie, need to boycott all movies. And music. And art. And plays. And food. And drink. And clothes. And everything that you can spend money on.

Because I can assure you that there is no item you buy that somewhere in the chain of people involved in getting that item to you doesn't support some cause you don't like.

Why Card and this movie deserves special consideration, I do not know.

[garbon]

But if you like Ender's Game, to boycott the film is basically saying even though I like this work of art, I dislike the person who created it, so I want to see it do badly or etc. It's like the old Italian patrons who would turn artists out into the streets when they took views opposite them on theological or political issues, and I think that's different from just boycotting a business. It's subsuming artistic expression and experience to personal political concerns.

I think boycotting someone who wants you to be unhappy isn't wrongheaded. Particularly when that person actually has used his funds to promote your unhappiness.

[garbon]

Why Card and this movie deserves special consideration, I do not know.

I'd think likely because of the virulence of his beliefs. And then really, I didn't get annoyed at him till his call for tolerance.

[Siege]

I really don't like to see people engaged in boycocks.

[garbon]

I really don't like to see people engaged in boy-cocks.

Ok.

[OttoVonBismarck]

There are probably a good 200+ people involved in the making of a major Hollywood movie. Hell, maybe even two or three times that number. Who knows.

I can assure you that some of those people will use some of their money to do something you do not approve of, or fund some political group you don't like.

So really, you and garbon and everyone else who want to boycott this movie, need to boycott all movies. And music. And art. And plays. And food. And drink. And clothes. And everything that you can spend money on.

Because I can assure you that there is no item you buy that somewhere in the chain of people involved in getting that item to you doesn't support some cause you don't like.

Why Card and this movie deserves special consideration, I do not know.

Well, and here's the thing, most likely at least a decent portion of those people will make substantially more money than OSC. Harrison Ford for example has demanded and received a portion of gross from most of his recent big budget films (maybe why you don't see him in as many as you once did), and he's even out there openly supporting gay marriage and has described the fight for it with references to Jackie Robinson and etc. Since he's almost certainly going to take home vastly more money from Ender's Game than OSC, you could argue that by boycotting the movie you're hurting a supporting of gay marriage more than you're hurting an opponent of it. Since most of the film industry is full of very socially liberal people, that probably is true for almost everyone associated with the film except for card, including the studio executives and others who take home some of the biggest pay checks.

It's like boycotting a company whose CEO/Founder donates $10m/year to gay rights causes because one of their mid-level managers is against gay marriage.

[Siege]

This is bullshit. If Brain makes the joke is funny, if I make it is not.

Anti-semitism!!!!!!!1111

[Berkut]

Why Card and this movie deserves special consideration, I do not know.

I'd think likely because of the virulence of his beliefs. And then really, I didn't get annoyed at him till his call for tolerance.

Replace the relevant portions of my post with "perople with virulent beliefs about something you don't like".

I am with OvB on this. The attempt to force businesses to self censor what they produce based on completely unlreated political stances taken by some people they may employ or even be associated with is vastly more objectionable than anything Card thinks. If only because Card is just some guy with pretty common (even if I disagree with them vehemently) views on homosexual rights.

Trying to force censorship of businesses, and that is all this is at the end of the day an attempt to use money to censor someone for their political beliefs, affects a lot more than just Card.

[garbon]

Why Card and this movie deserves special consideration, I do not know.

I'd think likely because of the virulence of his beliefs. And then really, I didn't get annoyed at him till his call for tolerance.

Replace the relevant portions of my post with "perople with virulent beliefs about something you don't like".

I am with OvB on this. The attempt to force businesses to self censor what they produce based on completely unlreated political stances taken by some people they may employ or even be associated with is vastly more objectionable than anything Card thinks. If only because Card is just some guy with pretty common (even if I disagree with them vehemently) views on homosexual rights.

Trying to force censorship of businesses, and that is all this is at the end of the day an attempt to use money to censor someone for their political beliefs, affects a lot more than just Card.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't think there is anything objectionable in taking one's leisure funds elsewhere to send the message that one isn't willing to tolerate the support of hate mongers.

[fhdz]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't think there is anything objectionable in taking one's leisure funds elsewhere to send the message that one isn't willing to tolerate the support of hate mongers.

Now let's not drag mongers into this, whether you hate him or not.

[Berkut]

There are probably a good 200+ people involved in the making of a major Hollywood movie. Hell, maybe even two or three times that number. Who knows.

I can assure you that some of those people will use some of their money to do something you do not approve of, or fund some political group you don't like.

So really, you and garbon and everyone else who want to boycott this movie, need to boycott all movies. And music. And art. And plays. And food. And drink. And clothes. And everything that you can spend money on.

Because I can assure you that there is no item you buy that somewhere in the chain of people involved in getting that item to you doesn't support some cause you don't like.

Why Card and this movie deserves special consideration, I do not know.

Well, and here's the thing, most likely at least a decent portion of those people will make substantially more money than OSC. Harrison Ford for example has demanded and received a portion of gross from most of his recent big budget films (maybe why you don't see him in as many as you once did), and he's even out there openly supporting gay marriage and has described the fight for it with references to Jackie Robinson and etc. Since he's almost certainly going to take home vastly more money from Ender's Game than OSC, you could argue that by boycotting the movie you're hurting a supporting of gay marriage more than you're hurting an opponent of it. Since most of the film industry is full of very socially liberal people, that probably is true for almost everyone associated with the film except for card, including the studio executives and others who take home some of the biggest pay checks.

It's like boycotting a company whose CEO/Founder donates $10m/year to gay rights causes because one of their mid-level managers is against gay marriage.

I actually find the entire thing more objectionable as a matter of principle than anything else.

This is no different in kind than boycotting a business that refuses to have a separate lunch counter for blacks, or refusing to buy products from someone because they are Jews.

It is an attempt to stifle free speech through economic blackmail of businesses. I hate it because it fucking works. Businesses do in fact decide just not to mess with stuff because the bottom line might be harmed. It may not work in this particular case, but it has certainly worked in the past when businesses make decisions about what markets they want to engage in or what products they want to sell or who they want to associate with based on bullshit like this.

In this case, everyone is happy with it because they happen to agree with that cause, but that is missing the point.