If you had a hundred grand cash in your pocket...

[fhdz]

Adopt a child.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

Hey man, don't knock the concept.  There's a wide selection of 16 year olds from the Pacific Rim to choose from these days. 
Think of it this way, you're halfway through the troubled teen years.

I'm just laughing at the notion of a child as an investment rather than a giant (loveable, amazing, brilliant, blah blah blah) money pit.

It's a big risk, especially if they come out or end up retarded/disabled, but good productive children can increase family security and ultimately make the world a better place by their 20's or even earlier.

We as parents do our best to ensure that they all come out a leeeettle beet retarded/disabled.

I don't think any parent deliberately raises their child to be like Tamas.

Ron Paul!

[MadBurgerMaker]

You should give it to me. A sound investment to be sure.

[OttoVonBismarck]

But maybe US REITs do in fact have stock.

There's no maybe about it. I own stock in both REITs directly as well as ETFs that hold (mostly) REITs.

Neither of you is truly wrong. Historically a REIT was just what BB said, not a corporation but a trust. You bought units in the trust, and if the trust paid out 90% of its income as dividends (along with a list of other requirements) to the unit holders then much/all of its Federal income tax liability disappeared. So it was basically a way for trusts to sort of pass through income directly to unit holders who would then be taxed on it, but the trust itself avoided having to pay income. So basically unlike a typical corporate arrangement, you aren't "double taxed."

A lot of REITs are still actual trusts. However, the term REIT has gotten much broader since the 1950s when the regulation allowing for them was created. Nowadays, you can get the tax treatment of a REIT while not actually being a legal trust. Instead, even regular corporations or other forms of business association can get IRS REIT treatment if they follow the rules. So in the U.S. the term more broadly refers these days to any company that can file an I-REIT form for income tax treatment as a REIT. Even though not all of them are legal trusts (but many of them still are, example AGNC, CMO, IRET are actual REIT trusts.)

But that doesn't mean you can't trade them on an exchange, not everything that trades on the NYSE or similar equity exchanges is actually a company. There are lots of Unit Investment Trusts (UITs), Royalty Trusts (give you the right to a stream of income typically associated with a specific natural resource), MLPs and other such entities listed on the major exchanges (and even more listed on sketchier exchanges.)

Canada used to have something called a Royalty Trust, which was similar to an American royalty trust except they could be perpetual going concerns. They could buy new assets and basically run as a business, and they had great tax treatment. But a few years ago the tax treatment changed and they were no longer worth while, I think most have changed into other forms of businesses or folded up. I used to own some 5-6 years ago because they paid great dividends, but you do have to deal with withholding on dividends received on foreign shares.

[OttoVonBismarck]

BB makes a good point about preferred securities. They are shares that function like bonds mostly, but they are / typically do pay higher interest rate than bonds. You can find preferred securities with 8% yield right now.

Check out this. Now yes, in terms of credit ratings that preferred share is basically unrated and considered junk grade, it's a Greek shipping firm. With preferreds it is extremely important you read the terms. In the case of SB.PRB it is cumulative (so skipped dividends accumulate and must be paid eventually), and has a set call window, if the company doesn't call them by 2016 the dividend rate increases over a period of quarters.

While being associated at all with any Greek company is scary (preferreds can lose all value and stop making payments if the company goes bankrupt) if you read about Safe Bulkers they've got a lot of contracts to cover the next few years and the owner and CEO has put a lot of his own private money behind this effort to raise capital with the preferred security issuing so it is more likely in my mind they keep paying them.

Even if something like that is too risky, you can find preferreds issued by RBS yielding 5.75% right now, that have made their quarterly payments for years without issue now. Also, they trade at a discount to call value and are past their call date, so if RBS ever calls them you make an instant profit. In the case of RBS.PRL $100k would get you 5,091 shares paying $1827/quarter or $7310/year in dividend payments. If ever called, they'd have to give you $25/share which is an instant 21% return on investment on top of whatever number of dividend payments you received on it.

[Monoriu]

A hundred thousand US dollars.  Probably half the money in a passive stock fund, and half the money in investment grade bonds.

[MadImmortalMan]

Adopt a child.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

Hey man, don't knock the concept.  There's a wide selection of 16 year olds from the Pacific Rim to choose from these days. 
Think of it this way, you're halfway through the troubled teen years.

I'm just laughing at the notion of a child as an investment rather than a giant (loveable, amazing, brilliant, blah blah blah) money pit.

Heh. Having kids used to be a retirement plan. Now it's just an expensive hobby.

[MadImmortalMan]

I do have some REITs btw. About fifty grand in them between a couple property trusts and my shares in Kinder Morgan, which is a MLP. That's in an IRA retirement account. The money I'm talking about here was supposed to be for buying some physical stuff. I don't really feel like dumping it in the market somewhere. I already have those investments.

[Richard Hakluyt]

What is the risk.

You could lose everything.

Apparently not. If Phillip is talking about the same system as I read about then the default rate is only 2% and your loan is spread between borrowers in £10 packets.

Though I thought the return was only 8% or so.

Edit : I see it was Yi who was talking about it, we are maybe thinking of different but similar arrangements or are getting forgetful of detail in our old age.

[jimmy olsen]

Sure it does.

Adjusting for inflation, a 1934 $100,000 bill would purchase the equivalent of $1.4 million.

http://stats.areppim.com/calc/calc_usdlrxdeflator.php

[Capetan Mihali]

Honestly, if this is enough to get going, I would go ahead now. Seriously Seedy--I'd bankroll you to the hilt any day. What do the numbers look like?

I think most are stopping there.

Depends on the amount of liability you want to assume with the insurance company.

Say the bail is $100K.  You charge 10% of the bail as a non-refundable fee, so that's $10K. 

In Tennessee, they'd take 5%.  Unbelievable.  Especially when, after getting a 75-80% acquittal on an attempted murder, to-wit-with-a-chainsaw (plus two separate agg assaults, w/ chainsaw & knife) trial, we got the bail reduced from $100k to $6000 pre-sentencing, and it still took like 20 days for our client's psycho mother to get together the $300 to spring his ass, after 11 months in jail pre-trial.

------

But I'd love to get to back to you in 10 years and run a little kickback operation between my personal injury/criminal defense firm and your bail bonds shop.

"....mmm-hm, mm-hm, (nodding too frequently out of impatience) I know it wasn't his gun, Mrs. Anderson, I understand he couldn't have known it was there, and we'll talk all about this later, but right now we've got to get Junior out of jail, don't we? (Scribbling on business card) Ma'am, what I want you to do right now is take this card down to Mr. DeMoney's office, just the next block over, and tell 'em Mihali sent you.  Now (a rehearsed grin and subtle snort), he might come off a little gruff at first, but we go way back, ya see, and he'll give you a special price, just as a favor for me.  You talk to Seedy and work something out, he'll have your son back home for dinner and a good night's sleep in his own bed.  Then in the morning, I can get the full story from Junior and we'll figure out our gameplan for fighting this case.  Sound good?  Oh, and (half-smirks) let him know I've got something for GangstaKitty the next time I see him.  You take care now, Mrs. Anderson, and we'll be in touch real soon."

[CountDeMoney]

Honestly, if this is enough to get going, I would go ahead now. Seriously Seedy--I'd bankroll you to the hilt any day. What do the numbers look like?

I think most are stopping there.

Depends on the amount of liability you want to assume with the insurance company.

Say the bail is $100K.  You charge 10% of the bail as a non-refundable fee, so that's $10K. 

In Tennessee, they'd take 5%.  Unbelievable.  Especially when, after getting a 75-80% acquittal on an attempted murder, to-wit-with-a-chainsaw (plus two separate agg assaults, w/ chainsaw & knife) trial, we got the bail reduced from $100k to $6000 pre-sentencing, and it still took like 20 days for our client's psycho mother to get together the $300 to spring his ass, after 11 months in jail pre-trial.

The big thing now in Baltimore is to take 1% down for certain bails and pay the rest off.  The courts don't like it, but it's a separate contractual agreement between the bondman and the signers, not the courts and the defendant.  But somebody, somewhere will post that bail.  That's right, you can get out of jail in Baltimore on a $10,000 handgun charge for $100 down.

It's really gotten out of control.

But I'd love to get to back to you in 10 years and run a little kickback operation between my personal injury/criminal defense firm and your bail bonds shop.

"....mmm-hm, mm-hm, (nodding too frequently out of impatience) I know it wasn't his gun, Mrs. Anderson, I understand he couldn't have known it was there, and we'll talk all about this later, but right now we've got to get Junior out of jail, don't we? (Scribbling on business card) Ma'am, what I want you to do right now is take this card down to Mr. DeMoney's office, just the next block over, and tell 'em Mihali sent you.  Now (a rehearsed grin and subtle snort), he might come off a little gruff at first, but we go way back, ya see, and he'll give you a special price, just as a favor for me.  You talk to Seedy and work something out, he'll have your son back home for dinner and a good night's sleep in his own bed.  Then in the morning, I can get the full story from Junior and we'll figure out our gameplan for fighting this case.  Sound good?  Oh, and (half-smirks) let him know I've got something for GangstaKitty the next time I see him.  You take care now, Mrs. Anderson, and we'll be in touch real soon."

Well, sometimes the lawyer-bondsman relationship can go pretty sour, because they're both going after the same pot of cash.  Criminal defense attorneys don't take a dump without a retainer.  But the trial's 6 or 9 months away, and he's in jail tonight.  Who do you think is gonna win that one?

[Capetan Mihali]

The big thing now in Baltimore is to take 1% down for certain bails and pay the rest off.  The courts don't like it, but it's a separate contractual agreement between the bondman and the signers, not the courts and the defendant.  But somebody, somewhere will post that bail.  That's right, you can get out of jail in Baltimore on a $10,000 handgun charge for $100 down.

It's really gotten out of control.

Yowza, that's wild.

But I'd love to get to back to you in 10 years and run a little kickback operation between my personal injury/criminal defense firm and your bail bonds shop.

"....mmm-hm, mm-hm, (nodding too frequently out of impatience) I know it wasn't his gun, Mrs. Anderson, I understand he couldn't have known it was there, and we'll talk all about this later, but right now we've got to get Junior out of jail, don't we? (Scribbling on business card) Ma'am, what I want you to do right now is take this card down to Mr. DeMoney's office, just the next block over, and tell 'em Mihali sent you.  Now (a rehearsed grin and subtle snort), he might come off a little gruff at first, but we go way back, ya see, and he'll give you a special price, just as a favor for me.  You talk to Seedy and work something out, he'll have your son back home for dinner and a good night's sleep in his own bed.  Then in the morning, I can get the full story from Junior and we'll figure out our gameplan for fighting this case.  Sound good?  Oh, and (half-smirks) let him know I've got something for GangstaKitty the next time I see him.  You take care now, Mrs. Anderson, and we'll be in touch real soon."

Well, sometimes the lawyer-bondsman relationship can go pretty sour, because they're both going after the same pot of cash.  Criminal defense attorneys don't take a dump without a retainer.  But the trial's 6 or 9 months away, and he's in jail tonight.  Who do you think is gonna win that one?
[/quote]

Same reason people take the shittiest pleas -- years of probation with totally unrealistic conditions (that all but guarantee re-incarceration), a lifetime of checking "Yes" to the felony question on the employment application at carwashes and Burger Kings -- on winnable cases, or choose to take a guilty plea rather than stay 6 more days to finish a 30 day in-house drug program as leverage for a dismissal...

But of course it's so much easier to fight a case from outside, even if a plea is the obvious outcome.

[fhdz]

Adopt a child.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

Hey man, don't knock the concept.  There's a wide selection of 16 year olds from the Pacific Rim to choose from these days. 
Think of it this way, you're halfway through the troubled teen years.

I'm just laughing at the notion of a child as an investment rather than a giant (loveable, amazing, brilliant, blah blah blah) money pit.

Heh. Having kids used to be a retirement plan. Now it's just an expensive hobby.

It's like buying an expensive house. An expensive house that talks back to you. An expensive house that talks back to you, stresses you out, and makes you wonder if it will take care of you when you are old and mentally 5 years old again.

EDIT: I shouldn't be so glib. My kids are actually really good kids. I can count on one hand the number of times I've gotten any backtalk from them. They save it all up for they mama

[Ed Anger]

I'm forming a kampfgruppe.

[Admiral Yi]

Help finance a porno.