U.S. taps half-billion German phone, internet links in month

[lustindarkness]

I'm just an average man
With an average life
I work from nine to five
Hey, hell, I pay the price
All I want is to be left alone
In my average home
But why do I always feel
Like I'm in the twilight zone


And (I always feel like)
(Somebody's watching me)
And I have no privacy

...

[Zanza]

And that makes it better somehow? I don't want your or my government to have such information.

Save the umbrage for the private sector, which is doing a lot more with your personal information than any government could.

Not really. Private sector companies will only ever have a much smaller dataset from much less sources than what a government agency can assemble. Google will have its own data, but they can't easily combine that with data from Apple, AT&T, VISA, Citibank, the social security office, the IRS etc. That's something only a government agency can ever do. And Google is profit-oriented, whereas the security agencies operate on huge budgets, so Google will have much less resources it can commit to tracking particular persons. I would even expect that private sector companies like Google take privacy regulations more serious than a lot of government agencies - where laws might by less strict anyway.

I am surprised in the newly found trust Americans all of sudden seem to have in their government, which is completely different from the notion that I usually get from threads on gun rights or so. I live in a country that had the Stasi and Gestapo in living memory, so I don't trust the government with that kind of information.

[Zanza]

Yi has a point; regardless of what US voters think, this is becoming a first order diplomatic fiasco, and is not only likely to have impact on government-to-government cooperation (like the trade talks) but on the ability of leading US companies to operate effectively in Europe.

Shame the German intelligence community is going to lose access to their ally's fantastic intelligence asset.

Good.

[Zanza]

Maybe we should make public the literally dozens of times we've caught members of French and German intelligence bugging American offices and spying on America? It's kind of shitty for countries that spy on us all the time to act like this just because some pissant leaker spilled the beans on us, I'd be inclined to release details about their own spying to shut them up.

Yes, you should.

[CountDeMoney]

Save the umbrage for the private sector, which is doing a lot more with your personal information than any government could.

Not really. Private sector companies will only ever have a much smaller dataset from much less sources than what a government agency can assemble. Google will have its own data, but they can't easily combine that with data from Apple, AT&T, VISA, Citibank, the social security office, the IRS etc. That's something only a government agency can ever do. And Google is profit-oriented, whereas the security agencies operate on huge budgets, so Google will have much less resources it can commit to tracking particular persons. I would even expect that private sector companies like Google take privacy regulations more serious than a lot of government agencies - where laws might by less strict anyway.

Yeah, really. 
They sell it, to one another and other parties, they compile consumer and customer profiles on everything from income to spending habits, and to a greater extent than any DMV reject in the US government could;  they have zero accountability.  You've never worked in the American private sector, or you'd know they don't give two shits about privacy regulations when it comes to making a buck.

I am surprised in the newly found trust Americans all of sudden seem to have in their government, which is completely different from the notion that I usually get from threads on gun rights or so. I live in a country that had the Stasi and Gestapo in living memory, so I don't trust the government with that kind of information.

It's not trust, but a confidence in their traditional incompetence;  that's what protects us from our government.  It's not as smart as you think it is. 

If only it the US government was a competent as the Stasi.  At least you had Marcus Wolf;  we only have the FBI.

[CountDeMoney]

Yi has a point; regardless of what US voters think, this is becoming a first order diplomatic fiasco, and is not only likely to have impact on government-to-government cooperation (like the trade talks) but on the ability of leading US companies to operate effectively in Europe.

Shame the German intelligence community is going to lose access to their ally's fantastic intelligence asset.

Good.

What's German for "Whaaaaa"?

[Valmy]

I find it sort of disturbing these days that generally the German people value freedom more than we do.  Granted they have good reason to I guess given their history.

[The Minsky Moment]

. Google will have its own data, but they can't easily combine that with data from Apple, AT&T, VISA, Citibank, the social security office, the IRS etc.

Just need a contract

[The Minsky Moment]

Shame the German intelligence community is going to lose access to their ally's fantastic intelligence asset.

Maybe so but if the cost to Merkel is the vote of a single Pomeranian grenadine sipper, she won't pay.

[DGuller]

I find it sort of disturbing these days that generally the German people value freedom more than we do.  Granted they have good reason to I guess given their history.

That's my biggest disappointment in this whole story.  I never realized how prevalent pliant bydlos are in US.

[jimmy olsen]

 
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/01/19229897-germany-to-us-bugging-friends-is-unacceptable?lite

Juergen Trittin, parliamentary leader and candidate for chancellor of the Greens, Germany's third biggest party, told German television it was an outrage that the 30-year-old leaker should be seeking asylum in "despotic" countries.

"Someone like that should be protected," he said. "He should get safe haven here in Europe because he has done us a service by revealing a massive attack on European citizens and companies. Germany, as part of Europe, could do that."

[Sheilbh]

Yes, you should.

The UK spies on all their European partners, so do the French. I don't understand the outrage at spies doing their jobs

"Someone like that should be protected," he said. "He should get safe haven here in Europe because he has done us a service by revealing a massive attack on European citizens and companies. Germany, as part of Europe, could do that."

The only way he should be in Europe is hiding in the Ecuadorian Embassy

[derspiess]

The UK spies on all their European partners, so do the French. I don't understand the outrage at spies doing their jobs

The outrage is due to naive but understandable assumptions. 

[Sheilbh]

I remember watching a BBC documentary on the great offices of State with a few European foreign ministers complaining that British Foreign Secretaries tended to be suspiciously well-briefed on their partners' negotiating points at every summit

One thing that annoys me about this whole situation is how much Putin is obviously enjoying it

[dps]

I am surprised in the newly found trust Americans all of sudden seem to have in their government, which is completely different from the notion that I usually get from threads on gun rights or so. I live in a country that had the Stasi and Gestapo in living memory, so I don't trust the government with that kind of information.

I think you missed the point I made earlier.  We don't like the government datamining the communications of Americans citizens.  We don't really give a shit what they do to foreigners.